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An old house is not supposed to be like a new house, that is why it is cheaper. Nitpicking is silly. The "bones" are not a problem unless the house is unlivable or has major structural problems. Older painted cabinets are not bones, they are just shelves with doors. If a seller updates with an inexpensive floor or countertop in an inexpensive house, not sure how that is a problem. So what if the owner didn't do a perfect DIY job, lots of builders and contractors are sloppy too.
If something is working, why fix or replace it if it isn't broken.
We've just spent the last year on an extreme fixer. Built in '53, single wall construction (this is Hawaii, it's a weird construction method typical around here), original aluminum roof that is amazingly still in decent condition, and it has had some really 'interesting' work done on it over the years (front porch post in the way, why let's just remove it), one entire wall replaced with double wall construction but no specific stud placement and odd windows just kinda stuck in there, another annoying post in the carport (that only holds up most of the carport roof) that was 'adjusted', rotted bathroom floor 'fixed' by covering it with big ceramic tiles after putting a 1/2" thick plywood plate over the hole and then trying to level it with tiles, etc., etc.
Then there were some squatters who claimed to have bought it from the bank and were 'improving' it for six months. That mostly involved a SawsAll and removing walls. They stopped doing that when the ceiling fell about three inches. When they got thrown out, they removed most of the light fixtures and all the interior doors, including all the kitchen cabinet doors. Plus, just for icing on the cake, there's some fairly significant termite damage and a severe lack of access issues. The driveway to the carport behind the house is on the neighbor's property and when the squatters were there the neighbors fenced that off.
It sat on the market for about a year and we finally bought it because there's a 24' x 36' workshop (new build, never finished but about 90% done) up at the back of the property. We bought it for that (plus the really nice avocado tree near the workshop) and the little 'fixer' is sort of an extra. It is a marginal fixer, could have just as easily been a tear down.
After a year, there's about a month of work left on it and there's a whole list of renters who are anxious to rent it due to it's location and nice lanai with expansive ocean views.
We did a 1031 exchange selling a rental to get it and it was almost an exact price match. We've lost a year of rental income from that, although it wasn't a high end rental. Once the fixer is done and rented, it will take 4.5 months to recoup the lost rent and another 8.3 months to recoup the expenditures for materials. Fortunately, it's a small house.
I've also been able to swap drafting work in exchange for the plumbing and electrical repairs, so I suppose that could be factored in as lost income from the drafting?
Since it was paid for when we started, we haven't had carrying costs on it which has made a long reno possible. We haven't been working full time on it, it probably gets about 50 to 80 hours of work on it each week. It has a work team of two part time not overly fast workers, we don't have to be fast, just persistent.
This is about a year ago. The sash window in the back has been repaired and the trim painted around it, but the rest of it is pretty much as we bought it. The front corner post is rotted at the bottom and the front corner is sagging by about three inches. The front lanai is pretty much rotted under the tile floor. (Big ceramic tiles on a wood floor? Of course they all cracked.) Plus that floor is 10" down from the front door so it's a big first step. Steps up are rotted on one side and missing on the other, etc., etc.
Same house a year later and it's still not finished. There will be stair railings and some wire horse fence (2" x 4" openings) under the porch rails so the rails won't be so open. That will pretty much finish the exterior.
Beginning interior pictures, that's the Realtor's paperwork on the countertop and you can see the lovely SawsAll work done by the squatters.
The ceiling is back up where it should be, the floor has been leveled (replacing the front post did a lot to level the floor)
This is the original kitchen layout with new cabinets, but it's still not a nice kitchen. The stove behind the door and the fridge dominating the small space is just 'ick'. (That's a technical term, don'tcha know?)
Cut a hole in the wall and built a 'refrigerator niche' (looks a lot like a water heater closet from the exterior). Shoved the fridge into the wall, raised it a foot or so to make it easier to reach the lower drawer. Swung the door towards the exterior - still need to build a cutesy 'cottage' type screen door. We should have done the ceilings first, but it was such a big project that we just worked on it as we felt like it.
The bath was the other big project. Everything removed, floor joists replaced and sistered, new floor decking, new vinyl tiles, new tile tub surround. Added a little closet, too, which the bath hadn't had before. This little house needs more storage, but I'll build a couple big storage cabinets in the carport so holiday decorations and such can go in there.
So far it has been an inexpensive fixer, BUT we haven't been living in it and it's more of a retirement hobby than a money making proposition. If we wanted to sell it, we could see about $120K profit after a year's work, but then we'd not have the workshop or avocado tree, either, so it will be a rental.
Guess I should be over there doing the final paint on the hallway and back bedroom instead of typing to you lovely folks here on the CD forum.
Over the years I have known two couples that ended up getting divorced and in both cases the issues began when doing extensive home remodels.
Its not uncommon.
Remodeling is really stressful. There's the budget that always seems to need stretching, the mess, the noise, the safety issues of a half completed space, the inability to put things away properly, the comings and goings of supplies or paid craftspeople, the feeling of living in a chaotic construction zone. Sometimes people refuse to admit defeat and get to a point where they don't have the skills or money to complete the job and the temporary chaos becomes permanent. Sometimes the time it takes to finish the project takes away too much from relationships. But people don't stop to consider this kind of thing.
How true.
People think that a whole house can be reno'd in 44 minutes, just like on TV...
Everything just "seems to fit" perfectly. Yeah, right. Only on TV...
My overall favorite has got to be the "this house has good bones" realtor trick/lie. Well, maybe it does, but you wouldn't know that unless you have X-ray vision and can see through drywall and plaster and the realtors say that about every old house.
But assuming the house does indeed have "good bones", that doesn't necessarily mean that it has a functioning nervous system, a strong heart, working kidneys, clean lungs, or a bladder that doesn't leak.
Thanks! I think a lot of it is because we're doing it as an amost fun hobby and not as a profitable venture. It will end up being profitable I suppose, but the primary reason is because it's a nice house that needs to be rescued. Well, that plus we get the huge workshop up back to use while the house in front is rented and creates income. Guess we will be able to afford some nicer tools once the project is finished. C'est la vie.
After we finish fixing up the little house and the workshop, we may build a new house for us near the workshop. It will be really nice to live in a newer house, although I don't know if we're gonna be able to find decent construction materials at a reasonable price. Code has changed a lot since the little house was built and a lot of stuff isn't available anymore. Have you ever tried to find chrome trim for countertops? Or true double hung sash windows? I may have to build some if I can find the sash cord rollers that fit in the window side frames. Be nice to make them out of koa or another tropical hardwood and put a clear finish on them. Not sure how well they'd weather in the sunlight, though.
I think for folks considering a fixer-upper, unless they're very handy or in the construction business somewhere, it's best to get one that will be their own house and not a flipper. Also, do the renovation on the house one room at a time so all the mess stays out of the living areas, at least, hopefully. That doesn't work for house wide systems such as wiring or plumbing, or structural parts, etc.
The extreme fixer is working for us since it's paid for when we started and we're not living there. If it didn't meet both those conditions, the stress levels would be significantly higher.
Over the years I have known two couples that ended up getting divorced and in both cases the issues began when doing extensive home remodels.
As a draftsperson, I meet up with folks just starting out on the house building trail and there's been several who got divorced before they even got their building permit. Not sure if the thought of building a house had anything to do with it or if they had tried house building as a marriage repair tactic?
My overall favorite has got to be the "this house has good bones" realtor trick/lie. Well, maybe it does, but you wouldn't know that unless you have X-ray vision and can see through drywall and plaster and the realtors say that about every old house.
But assuming the house does indeed have "good bones", that doesn't necessarily mean that it has a functioning nervous system, a strong heart, working kidneys, clean lungs, or a bladder that doesn't leak.
IMHO, one shouldn't be doing a fixer upper unless one can pretty much do your own inspections as well. I don't trust anyone else's opinion on things over my own most times. However, if there is an inspection, I'll take their opinion into account and check it out myself.
'Good bones' (i.e. structural items) are some of the more expensive and difficult things to fix, so if it does have good bones, the rest of the systems are usually (note: that's 'usually' not 'always') easier to deal with.
........ The frustration comes when you get called tearfully to help with a project gone wrong because the person has no idea about plumbing or construction, or when someone begs that your very skilled carpenter please take a day away from your business concerns to make a home safe qfter they accidentally sawed through something they should not have been messing with in the first place. .......
Then just tell them no and give them the name of a carpenter or an electrician, or whatever they need to do the fix. You repeatedly get yourself into uncomfortable positions because you apparently are not capable of saying no to anyone. Stop turning their problems into your problems.
Unless you bullied them into buying a house they don't want, it is not your problem if they can't figure out their own limitations, can't figure out what work needs to be done, can't organize their life, and are incapable of working a budget. It's not your problem to fix so it should not involve any frustration at all.
Remodeling is really stressful. There's the budget that always seems to need stretching, the mess, the noise, the safety issues of a half completed space, the inability to put things away properly, the comings and goings of supplies or paid craftspeople, the feeling of living in a chaotic construction zone. Sometimes people refuse to admit defeat and get to a point where they don't have the skills or money to complete the job and the temporary chaos becomes permanent. Sometimes the time it takes to finish the project takes away too much from relationships. But people don't stop to consider this kind of thing.
I think folks would do well to work up to a fixer-upper and not just jump in as their first project together. Build a picnic table, replace a window, fix a toilet, paint and redocorate their existing house, etc., before jumping into even a minor fixer.
Also, factor in the finances IN DETAIL before jumping in. Get quotes or at least a ballpark estimate before just adding a number to whatever repair is needed. Then add in about 30% to 40% for cost over runs. If all that then works out, then think about maybe actually doing it.
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