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An old house is not supposed to be like a new house, that is why it is cheaper. Nitpicking is silly. The "bones" are not a problem unless the house is unlivable or has major structural problems. Older painted cabinets are not bones, they are just shelves with doors. If a seller updates with an inexpensive floor or countertop in an inexpensive house, not sure how that is a problem. So what if the owner didn't do a perfect DIY job, lots of builders and contractors are sloppy too.
If something is working, why fix or replace it if it isn't broken.
Bless you, I thought I was the last person in the U.S. still living with Formica. It still looks decent, is clean, and functional, at 60 years old (a lot like me). My BIL just built a new house, and didn't know about a special, required-by-code overflow for the dishwasher until the new quartz countertops were installed. It took a couple of trips to the supplier and a $350 service call to get a 1" diameter hole drilled next to the sink, they were scared spitless of cracking it. I'd rather have stainless steel like a White Castle, LOL, but unless I upgrade to a new house, the Formica will probably outlast me.
We're getting close... may already be over the peak after COVID...
We're going to start seeing a bunch of failed flips, ones that might make financial sense when the papers were signed, but won't sell for projected price once the work is completed.
It's always frog-in-pan. Profit margins slowly tighten on deals but people don't stop buying them. They just think they have to flip more.
Next you'll see people living in these flips and renting out their primary residence because even rent on their flip is crap for what they're left holding the bag for.
My particular area has strong apartment prices, but houses won't rent for 1% of the price they're selling. In fact, the same houses that are selling for right at $200k +/- $5k have identical homes (literally, same development and same layout) staying on the market for months with rent asks $1300-1400.
There's next to no desire to RENT a HOUSE. If someone's renting, it's an apt.
Yes. This is true in many places, even outside of major markets. The flipping way to vast riches has been made popular by many a TV show and most investors have cash to buy. Individual owners are typically shut out of the offers altogether. Thats when the letter writing comes in "please sell to us and not these terrible people who just want to profit off your beloved home" sort of emotional appeal.
Not all flips are terrible but most are. You have to choose very very carefully as an investor because you can easily eat up your margins with one significant repair you didn't anticipate. We don't do flips much these days but certainly have in the past. When given the choice between losing profit and slapping a bandaid on an issue, most flippers choose the bandaid. Many people have a group who has dumped cash in and sometimes those partners are going to get paid whether you are or not.
So the new owner inherits a home where the cosmetics are done but the big issues may still be lurking. You can look at this in a "glass half full"-- cosmetics can be pricey, issues that are already discovered should be disclosed. That's more than you get with your average fixer, but 9f course your up front cost is higher.
There's nothing free in the world of real estate. People who believe that they will magically develop the professional level home repair and construction skills needed to fix up a run down property are in for a very rude and expensive awakening. I wish this entire topic was portrayed much more realistically in the media.
That is what an inspection is for. I'm not sure what a seller is supposed to do. It seems like everyone wants a deal so they want people to sell older houses cheap and as-is, because there *might* be a problem lurking somewhere. I'm sure as heck not tearing my home down to the studs and rebuilding when there is no reason to because a buyer wants an old house to be like a new house, but cheaper. I will however update, paint and do reasonable cosmetic and maintenance repairs.
I would love to hear more detail from posters about what they really consider to be lipstick on a pig that wasn't noticed by them or picked up on inspection. Do they think the seller/flipper knew all the things that made it a pig or do they just not like the work that was done.
I bought a fairly new multi family property years ago, but it was just cheaply constructed. So I guess it was a pig but it was never intended to be a palace. I lived in it and made it look nice.
And I answered you. I don't "feel financially constrained" because other people buy fixers to live in. I do feel frustrated when I hear misinformation being fed to the gullible and arrogant. Im likewise annoyed if amd when those types of people ask for resources to get themselves out of bad situations they could have prevented with a little common sense.
Please stop trying to derail this thread because you think you know more about this than the many people who have shared their experiences. Come back after you have worked in a fixer every evening for a year, drained your savings and still don't have a pleasant, safe place to live and comment.
I never used the word "constrain" so do not use any form of the word when falsely quoting me. A constraint is something that is beyond one's control; a restraint may be imposed upon oneself.
Again, your frustrations and annoyances are not pertinent to the question, yet unanswered, that I have posed numerous times. Neither is the gullibility or arrogance you may portray others as nor any requests they may make of you.
You attempt to depict my direct question as derailing the thread while you avoid answering it at all costs.
I have made absolutely zero claims about the depth of knowledge I have regarding buying fixers as that is also not pertinent nor is whatever situations of overwork, inconvenience, lack of safety and loss of money as they also lack relevance. If you want to complain about such things, complain to the person who made you do it.
Since you won't answer the simple question, allow me to rephrase it to elicit opinions from other readers here: Does anyone believe there may be resentment on the part of investors looking to make a profit when they must compete with non-investor prospective owner-occupants for a property, thus pushing the price higher than they want to pay? The other side of the coin might also be interesting to examine - do potential live in buyers resent flippers and other investors they must compete with to buy a property?
Last edited by kokonutty; 08-13-2020 at 07:38 PM..
I never used the word "constrain" so do not use any form of the word when falsely quoting me. A constraint is something that is beyond one's control; a restraint may be imposed upon oneself.
Again, your frustrations and annoyances are not pertinent to the question, yet unanswered, that I have posed numerous times. Neither is the gullibility or arrogance you may portray others as nor any requests they may make of you.
You attempt to depict my direct question as derailing the thread while you avoid answering it at all costs.
I have made absolutely zero claims about the depth of knowledge I have regarding buying fixers as that is also not pertinent nor is whatever situations of overwork, inconvenience, lack of safety and loss of money as they also lack relevance. If you want to complain about such things, complain to the person who made you do it.
Since you won't answer the simple question, allow me to rephrase it to elicit opinions from other readers here: Does anyone believe there may be resentment on the part of investors looking to make a profit when they must compete with non-investor prospective owner-occupants for a property, thus pushing the price higher than they want to pay? The other side of the coin might also be interesting to examine - do potential live in buyers resent flippers and other investors they must compete with to buy a property?
Again and for the last time NO. Try the other way around when a cash poor first time buyer competes for a run down fixer with a bunch of cash offer investors. This has been mentioned a few times in this thread.
.....Does anyone believe there may be resentment on the part of investors looking to make a profit when they must compete with non-investor prospective owner-occupants for a property, thus pushing the price higher than they want to pay? The other side of the coin might also be interesting to examine - do potential live in buyers resent flippers and other investors they must compete with to buy a property?
I'd say that every buyer out there resents anything or anybody who serves as cause for their having to pay more for a property. On the other hand, those same market forces will be greatly appreciated when it comes time for the former resentful buyer to sell the very same property.
Buyers' Markets and Sellers' Markets are definitely viewed differently depending on whether you're buyin' or sellin'.
I think folks would do well to work up to a fixer-upper and not just jump in as their first project together. Build a picnic table, replace a window, fix a toilet, paint and redocorate their existing house, etc., before jumping into even a minor fixer.
Also, factor in the finances IN DETAIL before jumping in. Get quotes or at least a ballpark estimate before just adding a number to whatever repair is needed. Then add in about 30% to 40% for cost over runs. If all that then works out, then think about maybe actually doing it.
I'd say that every buyer out there resents anything or anybody who serves as cause for their having to pay more for a property. On the other hand, those same market forces will be greatly appreciated when it comes time for the former resentful buyer to sell the very same property.
Buyers' Markets and Sellers' Markets are definitely viewed differently depending on whether you're buyin' or sellin'.
So true! All these woe us me unfair gentrification complainers are the FIRST people who want to squeeze every dusty cent out of their property because they put in some ikea cabinets and quartz counters.
Again and for the last time NO. Try the other way around when a cash poor first time buyer competes for a run down fixer with a bunch of cash offer investors. This has been mentioned a few times in this thread.
Now back to the discussion at hand.
How could you miss that the question was asked both ways - without putting words in anyone's keyboard?
So, if the purpose of starting the thread was not to complain about those with whom you must compete, thus raising prices, was it to let everyone know how tough it is to invest in fixers or simply as a public service announcement warning hopeful owners away? That's the discussion, right?
How could you miss that the question was asked both ways - without putting words in anyone's keyboard?
So, if the purpose of starting the thread was not to complain about those with whom you must compete, thus raising prices, was it to let everyone know how tough it is to invest in fixers or simply as a public service announcement warning hopeful owners away? That's the discussion, right?
Can you just stop derailing this? I only can answer as an investor. I've never purchased a fixer with the intention of living there forever. Others who have bought these houses for their own family have commented on how many investors show up with cash. This question has been asked and answered more than once. No one believes investors resent the individual buyer. We know there's other houses. The individual buyer may be attracted to location for schools or work or have limited options for their price point. Investors can move on with zero attachments and may have multiple offers in place at the same time depending on their financials. Please just stop debating something thats so basic.
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