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I purchased a bare piece of land. Upon getting the survey done, it became apparent that the house next door was really close to the property line, but I continued and finalized the purchase. The house was built in the late 1990's so I figured that maybe the setbacks were different/smaller back then versus now, where they are 20 feet on all sides of the property borders.
This 20 foot setback area is not to be built in/upon. However, the neighbors built an addition onto their house in 2013, and the corner of their house is only 8 and a half feet from the lot line, not the 20 it's supposed to be.
I raised this issue with the HOA board, and one of the architectural committee members let it slip that they would be "grandfathering them in". However, upon researching past setback requirements, it appears that they have always been 20 feet, and there is a specific provision within the CCR's that state any structure that violates that setback must be removed at the owners expense.
What would you do if you were me in this situation?
I think you are doing the right thing by researching your legal recourse. There are two issues: the harm done to you and other property owners by this violation and the precedent set by allowing this homeowner to violate setback. I would try to come up with a dollar value of economic impact and fault. Let the HOA offer a resolution for breach of setback requirements in the first instance and,
to mitigate precedence setting, issue notice to all property owners of the breach and enforcement going forward.
Last edited by Maddie104; 08-20-2021 at 07:59 AM..
I think you are doing the right thing by researching your legal recourse. There are two issues: the harm done to you and other property owners by this violation and the precedent set by allowing this homeowner to violate setback. I would try to come up with a dollar value of economic impact and fault. Let the HOA offer a resolution for breach of setback requirements in the first instance and,
to mitigate precedence setting, issue notice to all property owners of the breach and enforcement going forward.
I would argue that OP has not suffered any economic harm. She purchased the property knowing the location of neighbor's structure, so presumably the price included the placement of the neighbors house relative of the purchased property.
If OP wants to start a lawsuit of property owners against the HOA (which is of course owned by the property owners), that will make her really popular. Everybody gets a settlement of $100, but needs to pay a special assessment of $200 to pay for the settlement and associated legal fees.
Who’s started fighting? I haven’t, I’m merely exploring my private property rights in regard to this persons error. As someone stated earlier, the battle is between him and the HOA and the county. I don’t have any power to make him tear down anything. I do have a right to the same covenants and restrictions that everyone else in the neighborhood benefits from, which have been grossly violated, so I don’t see any harm in asking questions about that can be done.
To be clear, when we figured out how close they were, we said nothing. The HOA discovered it when they reviewed our plans which are required to note existing homes and their setbacks. They called us and said ‘hey is this correct?”. We said well yes the surveyor measured it, not us, so we assume it’s correct. Everything else that’s happened has been from them, not us.
There's a reason why this lot has been unsold for decades. You chose to buy it. I just don't think there's any way you're going to change anything now.
Who’s started fighting? I haven’t, I’m merely exploring my private property rights in regard to this persons error. As someone stated earlier, the battle is between him and the HOA and the county. I don’t have any power to make him tear down anything. I do have a right to the same covenants and restrictions that everyone else in the neighborhood benefits from, which have been grossly violated, so I don’t see any harm in asking questions about that can be done.
To be clear, when we figured out how close they were, we said nothing. The HOA discovered it when they reviewed our plans which are required to note existing homes and their setbacks. They called us and said ‘hey is this correct?”. We said well yes the surveyor measured it, not us, so we assume it’s correct. Everything else that’s happened has been from them, not us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
I would argue that OP has not suffered any economic harm. She purchased the property knowing the location of neighbor's structure, so presumably the price included the placement of the neighbors house relative of the purchased property.
If OP wants to start a lawsuit of property owners against the HOA (which is of course owned by the property owners), that will make her really popular. Everybody gets a settlement of $100, but needs to pay a special assessment of $200 to pay for the settlement and associated legal fees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie104
I think you are doing the right thing by researching your legal recourse. There are two issues: the harm done to you and other property owners by this violation and the precedent set by allowing this homeowner to violate setback. I would try to come up with a dollar value of economic impact and fault. Let the HOA offer a resolution for breach of setback requirements in the first instance and,
to mitigate precedence setting, issue notice to all property owners of the breach and enforcement going forward.
Where did I state "start a lawsuit"? The onus is on the HOA and I specifically stated "let the HOA offer a resolution." Doing fact finding and exploring your legal recourse does not compel the OP to take action. It is information to be provided to the HOA in providing a resolution. If it is like our HOA, there are funds set aside for legal services and it would behoove the HOA to consult with legal your assumptions notwithstanding. The officers also have a funds for errors and omissions insurance. Hopefully a resolution would be found outside a lawsuit.
FWIW, I have belonged to an HOA for twenty years and I would be concerned if a homeowner violated the setback requirements. Every homeowner is given a copy of the HOA bylaws and I purchased my property expecting the bylaws to be upheld. The community is as lovely, if not lovelier than the day we purchased it because everyone has abided by the bylaws.
If the earlier homeowner didn't want to abide by the bylaws, he shouldn't have purchased the property. He also could have proposed an amendment to the bylaws to be voted upon or sold the property rather than building the addition.
Last edited by Maddie104; 08-20-2021 at 09:43 AM..
I think you are doing the right thing by researching your legal recourse. There are two issues: the harm done to you and other property owners by this violation and the precedent set by allowing this homeowner to violate setback. I would try to come up with a dollar value of economic impact and fault. Let the HOA offer a resolution for breach of setback requirements in the first instance and,
to mitigate precedence setting, issue notice to all property owners of the breach and enforcement going forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie104
Where did I state "start a lawsuit"?
Don't be disingenuous. Take a look at the bolded portions of your post. They strongly imply legal action, and although you did not use the specific word "lawsuit", the implication was crystal clear.
Quote:
The onus is on the HOA and I specifically stated "let the HOA offer a resolution."
Sure, and organizations are well known for offering money to resolve issues without being compelled, or under threat of compulsion via lawsuit.
The first reasonable step for the HOA to take is to ignore the grumblings of the OP. After all, she bought the land knowing what it looked like, where it was located, where the neighbors structures were located, etc. It isn't the fault of the HOA. Also, the OP is unclear on whether a variance was granted or not, and variances happen all the time.
What would compel the HOA to do anything else? Threat of legal action. In other words, a lawsuit.
Who’s started fighting? I haven’t, I’m merely exploring my private property rights in regard to this persons error. As someone stated earlier, the battle is between him and the HOA and the county. I don’t have any power to make him tear down anything. I do have a right to the same covenants and restrictions that everyone else in the neighborhood benefits from, which have been grossly violated, so I don’t see any harm in asking questions about that can be done.
To be clear, when we figured out how close they were, we said nothing. The HOA discovered it when they reviewed our plans which are required to note existing homes and their setbacks. They called us and said ‘hey is this correct?”. We said well yes the surveyor measured it, not us, so we assume it’s correct. Everything else that’s happened has been from them, not us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Don't be disingenuous. Take a look at the bolded portions of your post. They strongly imply legal action, and although you did not use the specific word "lawsuit", the implication was crystal clear.
Sure, and organizations are well known for offering money to resolve issues without being compelled, or under threat of compulsion via lawsuit.
The first reasonable step for the HOA to take is to ignore the grumblings of the OP. After all, she bought the land knowing what it looked like, where it was located, where the neighbors structures were located, etc. It isn't the fault of the HOA. Also, the OP is unclear on whether a variance was granted or not, and variances happen all the time.
What would compel the HOA to do anything else? Threat of legal action. In other words, a lawsuit.
Please stop misrepresenting:
The HOA brought up the issue with OP. So "ignore the grumblings of OP"????
No, the threat of legal action is for amateurs and I wasn't being "disingenous".
To repeat, I have been part of an HOA for twenty years and know how they operate.
You purchased the lot with full knowledge of the lot lines and where the neighbor's existing structure was. Neighbor pulled all required permits when building the addition.
I don't think you've got a leg to stand on, but IANAL, so.....
Violated City Setback Ordinance? Call the City and let them deal with it. You stay "independent" as regards the city asking for permits, plans, etc. Let the City be the heavy and you just sit back and appreciate that you are getting your view and "full value" back.
I purchased a bare piece of land. Upon getting the survey done, it became apparent that the house next door was really close to the property line, but I continued and finalized the purchase. The house was built in the late 1990's so I figured that maybe the setbacks were different/smaller back then versus now, where they are 20 feet on all sides of the property borders.
This 20 foot setback area is not to be built in/upon. However, the neighbors built an addition onto their house in 2013, and the corner of their house is only 8 and a half feet from the lot line, not the 20 it's supposed to be.
I raised this issue with the HOA board, and one of the architectural committee members let it slip that they would be "grandfathering them in". However, upon researching past setback requirements, it appears that they have always been 20 feet, and there is a specific provision within the CCR's that state any structure that violates that setback must be removed at the owners expense.
What would you do if you were me in this situation?
Would that make a difference to you, and if you would be ok with it under those circumstances why wouldn't you be ok with it under different circumstances. Honestly it sounds like you are less concerned with the actual structure than with punishing someone for 'breaking the rules'. You're talking about a 30 yr old house with a 10 yr old addition, do you even have any idea whether the current owners built or bought with the knowledge that they were in violation?
To me it's bad faith to go ahead with the purchase only to come back on the neighbors demanding they change something that was clearly visible to you at the time of purchase. What's legal isn't always ethical.
- what's the bottom line? what are you hoping to achieve? do you want your neighbor to tear down their addition? Do you want compensation (from whoever)? do you want to prevent others from ignoring the setback? #1 question, imho, is to ask yourself what is your endgame.
- the HOA will get themselves into a legal bind if they knowingly don't enforce their CC&R's. If your goal is to motivate the HOA into some action, they need to be reminded of this fact.
- perhaps one equatable solution is to be sure that the current neighbors addition can _legally_ be grandfathered in (vs verbally on the HOA's whim) to keep the setback rules enforceable. This assumes that this is really your goal, to prevent others from similarly ignoring setback rules and possibly blocking sight lines, etc.
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