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My guess is that this is a relationship running on the fumes of past memories, and it's run out of steam. You are facing real life together, real life in the now. You are a completely different person than you were 15 years ago, and so is he. Your personalities may have meshed well 15 years ago, but they no longer do and that's never going to change.
Frankly, we don't really know both sides of the story.
Maybe he's not using her to babysit his kids. Maybe he just needs to go at his own pace, and the OP is trying to force a close relationship between him and her eldest child.
I see no mention of him not getting along fine with her other kids here.
Maybe he's a bit leery of getting too close to what is likely a teen or pre-teen young woman?
Maybe she's a bit old for him to fuss over her like one would over a younger child?
I tried once again, to read the original post, but I just couldn't do it.
I did come up with a few things.
1. The OP want the guy to give 110% to the union. She doesn't mention how she plans to change.
2. She cries a lot. Many men, if not most, run from this type of woman.
3. 8 children and they have already spent over $20,000 for a wedding. I'm betting that it's all the OP's ideas, not his, that are costing. They probably have a different set of values about a lot of things.
I am guessing that the OP is in her mid 30s. She should know by now, that adult love is a lot different than it was in high school. It may be great in bed, but there is much, much more to a marriage than that.
I have a couple on my facebook right now who are stuck in the past. She is a divorced single mom & custodial parent to 4 kids; he is also divorced but isn't a custodial parent. They were high school sweethearts who reconnected on Facebook. He left his state to move in with her, has been there a year and has yet to get a job. She works, and takes care of her children, and whines on FB about how no one helps her with housecleaning and cooking. Anything someone points out the deadbeat shacking up with her, she publicly posts that he is such a great lover, she doesn't mind being the one only who works.
I really think people get wrapped up in the past and can't see a bad situation staring them in the face.
What a life. 8 kids. Talk about changes and issues.
Here's what I would do. Can the 20K wedding, it's a waste of money. Use the money on family and individual counselling, trying to get 10 people to become a family is a difficult task. Next, it seems to me you have too much on your plate. Him too! Have a family meeting and agree on chores, who does what. Age appropriate, of course. In a family that big, everyone has to contribute. And there needs to be consequences for slacking. Manage the kids extracurricular activities and set logical limits. Give yourselves time to do things together and have a relationship. 8 kids would suck the life out of almost anyone. You need to be stronger and more determined than they are. And they will test you....endlessly.
The 2 of you need to present a united front and manage your family. You are the boss, so take charge. Any family of 10 will have their ongoing squabbles and periods of love and hate. You can't mandate/demand they all love each other all the time. Everyone will have their favorites. You can demand respect and decent behavior. Demand this from yourself as well. Make sure you set an example. Act like you expect everyone else to act. Be loving and respectful of your H. He will most likely treat you in the same way. None of you are perfect but you can be kind.
You both need interaction with people outside your family. You are both entitled to friends. 2 male friends will often discuss sex, so I can see where any 2 friends might talk about it. If this is out of bounds for you, say so. Right up front. Don't whine, beg, plead, or be dramatic. Just say this is not acceptable to you. The 2 of you need to set limits on what is and isn't OK. Leave out all the drama and speak your mind. Stand up. Grow up. Act like an adult. Anyone with a family of 10 can't afford to be perceived as a whiny child living in a fantasy world.
When I read your post, I thought, here's a person with a life that's out of control and spinning towards disaster. Take charge and don't be the victim. People can only do bad things to you if you let them. Take care of yourself and your needs. Don't expect your mate to do this for you. You have to respect yourself if you want others to respect you. You and your mate are priorities one and two. Everyone else has to fall in line. You 2 have to make this happen. TOGETHER.
Lastly, learn paragraph structure. You may be a whiz with numbers but not so much with the written word.
I suspect that sounds like dumb or simplistic advice to you.
I'm having trouble taking you seriously. No, I don't mean that you have misrepresented or lied about the problems you describe. I actually find it fairly balanced considering that all OPs under estimate their fault and over estimate the silent partner's blame.
What I mean is that you are portraying yourself as what I would call a drama queen and that your existance on this earth is to live out, as much as possible, the drama you create in your mind. As the director in this movie, your leading man is ignoring you and you want us to tell you how to make him take you seriously(in other words - do as you say).
As director, you keep barking out your orders and complain to that "nobody listens to me" and at the end of the day you go to prince charming's dressing room and cry at his feet.
Creme gave you some great advice. Many gems for all readers - not just you.
But here is where I'm perplexed and confused. You've acknowledged to Creme that she is right but despite her and an overwhelming majority of people's advice, you still intend to get married. I took notice that you invoked the Jesus card to justify your intention. (And how can anyone object to the Jesus card?)
I wish that people had sudden epiphinys but usually they have slow smouldering revelations that are brought to clarity by an event or conversation. Like the woman who suddenly realized her husband was a selfish jerk and never going to change when she (in the garden) asked him (in the kitchen) to make her a sandwich and he told her to get her own, she then knew with clarity that the marriage was over. Did that really happen with your exchange with Creme?
Because here is the thing... you love drama and talk and from my experience, people who love drama and talk hate action. Drama is a way of avoiding action. Following up on the kids who need to make their beds is a whole lot harder than whinning and complaining about it - and I bet you do it with flair. Crying is a whole lot easier than considering and weighing how much of what your boyfriend said is true and working together to find the truth.
And if the only response you have to offer your boyfriend is drama then there is no way he will ever take you seriously.
How do you expect him to have a serious conversation with you? The men in this thread have been very clear to me but perhaps subtle to a woman and have said, drama kills communication. Emotional outbursts have a place but not when you want to solve problems.
I don't get why you insist on marrying him. 20k is a small fortune but cheaper than a divorce. You are chained to a timeline that is going to demonstrate once again, you 'don't do serious'. All talk - no action. But let say I concede that point - I do get how hard it is to walk away from 20k.
What action will you take to:
1) demonstrate that you take marriage seriously
2) you are going to work to make this relationship work.
Suggestions:
- Sit down with your boyfriend and tell him that you have been talking with friends and have learned that your emotional side is interfering with your mutual communication. Apologize to him for this. Tell him you intend to listen to him.
- Listen to him. As they say, "seek to understand before seeking to be understood". This advice is especially good for the drama queen.
- Practice good listening skills. If you are an interrupter and an endless down-loader (I suspect so) he will become frustrated and shut down. Many guys are brief and to the point. 50/50 may not be the right balance but if he is not putting in 30% of the conversation, you might not be listening well enough.
- Talk to him without excessive passion/emotion. Match his emotion. Do not exceed it. If you are both pationate that is OK. When he says something that hurts you and you *must* cry... then end the conversation and tell him you need some time. Tell him you'll talk later. Now here is the important point... when you are ready go right back to where the tears started and try to talk the issue through.
- Compromise. I suspect your crying is a way to avoid accepting a direction other than yours. Getting your way through tears is extremely poor behaviour. I understand any man who despises his partner for doing this. It is highly manipulative. And this takes me back to listening. Why listen to your boyfriend if doing so means you don't get your way - crying gets better results.
- Tell the boyfriend to move out until the wedding. Explain that you and he need to sort out some problems. Can't do that? And you want him to take you seriously? See where I'm going here?
- Agree with your boyfriend that you would have 30 minutes of manipulation free communication. Share the time equally.
I'm sure others can add practical suggestions.
You two have extremely poor communication. You need assistance and you need it before you marry. Go see your pastor if that is more palatable to the boyfriend and you but I recommend a professional who is trained in family therapy.
You can start making changes immediately and at no cost. Creme has great suggestions but I think the first priority is to start communicating without manipulation, guilt and with honesty and genuine desire to compromise.
2 years ago, my highschool sweetheart found me after 15 years and we have had the best relationship I have EVER had, even better than US back in highschool. The strongest chemistry I've ever had with another...not even my ex husband of 14 years. I am so completely in love with him and I feel nothing will change that. Not even what Im about to share. This may be such a small problem to many people but its not to me. This man was my saving grace back in highschool from an abusive family member and he was my saving grace again 15 years later as I faced a horrible divorce and custody battle. I believe wholeheartedly that he was meant to find me again and remain by my side for the rest of my life. It may sound corny but it is honestly how I feel and I don't want to let go of the immense amount of love I have for him. So I am asking for anyone's advice on how to SAVE this relationship that has unfortunately been heading south. Last year, my fiance' moved across the country to be with me. He also brought his 4 children and I have 4 children as well. So we have 4 girls and 4 boys. Blending the family has been the toughest battle, even worse than my previous marriage at times..but I have come to love his children and it has been a lot better between his children and me. Yet he will not let down his wall to bond with my oldest daughter and it causes so much heartache between me and him. The children have really struggled to get along and we have been through counseling and now its better but it comes and goes, which I feel is expected. At first, all the dislike between our children never phased OUR relationship. We were still in paradise! That is until 6 months ago. Now it has effected our relationship and he leaves all the time. It is like every week we have a major blowout over the stupidest thing that usually involves my oldest daughter or his oldest daughter. Most nights, he has no problem going to bed angry and hurtful to me until he has me crying and he and I used to make love once or twice a day, but now he doesnt care to even kiss me goodnight. He says he never kissed his ex wife goodnight and its just something he has never done or even thought about. I am NOT used to that at all! Even when my ex would be so upset, he always leaned over to kiss me (even when I didnt want him to). My fiance also said he doesnt like holding things in and likes to get problems resolved right then and there, even if it goes into the night because our relationship was that important. But now, I am typing to the entire world, reaching out for answers because he wont talk to me. When I asked him tonight through my crying, how could he be so mean to me?, the one he searched for, the one he had dreams about well into his first marriage?, his response was,"Once again, you're always the victim." And when that made me cry even more, he was huffing,"Oh my Gosh!" under his breath. Now here is the kicker, our wedding that has already cost us roughly$20K is in 11 weeks. Our invitations are due to go out in 14 days. But I know I cannot say "I do" to a life like this. I told him last week that I couldn't explain it but that no matter what problems and trials we go through, NOTHING ever changes the fact that I am so deeply in love with him and he completely agreed with me that he honestly feels the same way...So then how can he so easily do the Dr.Jeckyl / Mr. Hyde act within just hours of saying that? I know I cannot fix this by myself and I am scared that he is taking my love for him for granted at the worst of times because I DON'T want to show up in 11 weeks to commit my life and my children's lives to what I'd almost call emotional abuse. I don't believe he is taking me seriously at all and I don't know how to make him see that I AM SERIOUS. I WANT to marry him and I love him but I also love myself and my children but me wanting "us" so bad has me scared that what if I marry him without fixing things and just hope it will get better and then it doesn't or even gets worse. I think he feels that I will do just that and he will have me anyway. Now, I am not perfect as I have become numb and tolerate a lot more of his hurtfulness, and can lash right back at him, which I have done. I know that I must stop myself and I have been trying but it is SO hard to refrain when his words and especially the heartless attitude behind it hurt me so bad. I often tell him I cannot live like this and I cannot or will not marry him and all he says is," Go be Happy, I don't care anymore!" I know I shouldn't say those things as they are very damaging and he KNOWS I don't mean it a lot of the time. He KNOWS what he means to me and I believe he is playing on that emotion of mine. I hate to break everything off, but deep down, especially after going through all I went through in my previous marriage, I feel with EVERY ounce of me that I WILL NOT go through with this wedding if he doesn't start putting 110% into "US" and MY children as well. So in 2 weeks, how can I get him to see how serious I am? What else can I do to make things better? Oh and the issues tonight are the facts that I commented on a guys facebook status asking if anyone had any furniture to sell since he and his fiancee have just leased a house together. I have a couch and a loveseat collecting dust in my garage and I offered to sell it to him. He doesnt like this person because he has a filthy mouth and has had a run in with him before (by my request actually) concerning they way he spoke to me. So now, after over a year from when that happened, he once and for all wants me to cut ties with him..even when my girls are really good friends with his girls. I said I don't liked to be controlled who I can and cant be friends with but out of respect for our relationship and bc our relationship should take priority, I would cut ties....and then he accused me of being dramatic and that I wont really do it! WTHeck? The other is that his best friend who up until a few weekends ago was the "Best man" for our upcoming wedding, is a female. Their friendship has mostly been an online one, as she lives very far away. I have tried to respect their friendship, even allowed her to be in the wedding, helped her pick out her dress, even talked to her and reached out to her for advice hoping that she knew him well enough to help me with some of our issues. ANNND forgave them both for crossing the lines in their friendship talking about how and what they like and dislike during sex AND revealing to her how I LIKE it during sex and was asking HER WHY I like it certain ways!!! That's just messed up to begin with! But he accuses me of never accepting her and their friendship!!! Well, she back-stabbed me and lied to him that I was mulling over the day of my old wedding anniversary and he actually left me that night...but later returned. I let her get the best of me and gave her a few of my own words and SHE chose to end their 7 year friendship and had a thousand times more worse things to say to hurt and show disrespect to me. I know I should be ready to take whatever I dish out, but he never stood behind me or stood up for me to her for what she did, even after I proved to him that she lied to him and played on his emotions. Instead, he kept making excuses for her and even resorted to taking the blame himself for possibly taking the wrong way! I should NEVER have to ASK to be defended! But I did, and he STILL didn't! Since then, he has not contacted her nor does she contact him...even after I swallowed my pride and sent her an apology for my cruel words and she has done the same. So, even though HE is choosing not to mend their friendship, I think he is passively demanding I cut ties with this friend of mine out of retaliation for the loss of his "best friend". Oh I am going to stop typing. I think Ive made my concern clear. If anyone has had the patience enough to read all this, first I apologize, and second I appreciate any advice that will make him see that I'm serious WITHOUT physically leaving the relationship. Thank you.
You have a lot going on. Figure out what you two items are causing you the most turmoil (Blending the stepfamily? Or the friendships) and work on that. I'd say work on your home issues first, and most couples do that with family therapy, or some kind of pastoral counseling from your local church. The "Boundaries" series of books by psychologists Cloud and Townsend are very good, also. Since you don't want to physically leave, you're going have to give some of this stuff an honest try. Good luck.
WC - Thank you. I understand that I need help. We have an appt with our first go around at professional counseling next week and I must say I am more than ready to get there. We are good for about 2 days before something happens and the challenge to act on such great advice is on. I was doing okay until today.
We have managed to work through a lot this week and today, I forgot the advice and found myself in the process of "shutting him down" after telling me he is questioning christianity or if there is really even a God and he's been reading online material from "The life, works and activism of Scott Bidstrup" Veritas Et Ratio - Truth And Reason about where the bible even comes from. . I realized it midway through and stopped myself.
I dont know HOW to accept this. I want to be there for him, but what if he decides to be an atheist after all his research? This is crazy. I dont mean to bring up the religion "card" again but I know that when something is about to be done which Satan doesn't want, he will do whatever he needs to do to prevent it. We are struggling right now when we used to be just fine. It just makes me question why are these off the wall things happening RIGHT now?? Just weeks before our wedding..Do you follow me?
I also know that contention is NOT of the Lord and this news today and everything he is telling me personally has me scared. It's like I'm not really talking to HIM. Now, Im not saying he's possessed or any crazy thing like that. It's just out of the blue today and he says he has actually been thinking about this for some time now and the contention between is high. Unspoken, now that I stopped talking about, but still high. I am definitely being challenged, I can tell you this. I don't know how but I am going to stand by him because I want him to be who he is and broaden his mind on his own fee will, not mine. But it's gonna be hard to keep my christian mouth SHUT on the subject.
I know this is going to take a lot of work on my part and I know I am so wrong on a lot of aspects. It is just hard to train myself to... I dont know how to say it, ....live, act, just BE different than what and how I live and act like so naturally.
Creme, you are amazing. You have no idea how much I value your words and how much I appreciate you. I thank ALL of you who has given me their heart-felt advice and taking time out of your day to do so.
WC - Thank you. I understand that I need help. We have an appt with our first go around at professional counseling next week and I must say I am more than ready to get there. We are good for about 2 days before something happens and the challenge to act on such great advice is on. I was doing okay until today.
We have managed to work through a lot this week and today, I forgot the advice and found myself in the process of "shutting him down" after telling me he is questioning christianity or if there is really even a God and he's been reading online material from "The life, works and activism of Scott Bidstrup" Veritas Et Ratio - Truth And Reason about where the bible even comes from. . I realized it midway through and stopped myself.
I dont know HOW to accept this. I want to be there for him, but what if he decides to be an atheist after all his research? This is crazy. I dont mean to bring up the religion "card" again but I know that when something is about to be done which Satan doesn't want, he will do whatever he needs to do to prevent it. We are struggling right now when we used to be just fine. It just makes me question why are these off the wall things happening RIGHT now?? Just weeks before our wedding..Do you follow me?
DawnMarie
Dawn, here you go again....you say you love this man, however, everytime he has a different view from you, you go off on him and then take it to the next level. You are not able to allow anyone thoughts other then yours....????? Just because he is researching and reading about this doesn't mean it's going to change his views, and so what if it does? He may end up feeling like me on the subject, I believe in God, and the Bible is a great book to live one's life by but it was written by men...and man is driven by power, greed, and sex. Like everyone else said here, why don't you consider canceling the wedding and getting some counseling....it is very evident in all your posts, that your concerns are based on the fact that he doesn't think and feel like you do on every subject, and you are not able to allow him his own thoughts and feelings...again, that is trying to take someone's identity away from them. Put the shoe on the other foot, and consider how you would feel if everytime you had a discussion with him, he disagreed with you and went into this drama. You have to realize, that just b/c someone disagrees with your thought process on subjects and issues, doesn't make you right and them horrible people...it's they're culture, who they are and how they were raised to believe...but you take it as a personal attack against you??????
You have to receive conceling on this with someone who is able to target your problem and teach you how to identify what your doing...if you don't, you will retard every single relationship...even with women friends and people in the work place. It's like if my boss would come to me and say, yanno, your doing a good job, but I see where you might be a little shy on this, or that, do you think you could possibly try and do better in these areas...and my reply would be, sure, perhaps there are some classes I could take, or I'll do more research. What do you think would happen if I'd fear admitting mistakes...? And I'd go into this dramatic tangine on defending my stance...even though I was wrong? How can I learn anything by stagnating myself. If you open your mind up to the thoughts and feelings of others, without taking offense or taking it personal, you learn so so much more about yourself, about people and about life.
Life is a learning process until the day we die...if we don't continue to grow, we stagnate any progress we could make...and also cut off any possiblities for ourselves, and that is what you are doing, not only for yourself, but your entire family...
Everything is at it's best the first year or two, after that it gets harder from my experience. The two of you are starting with so many problems that I can't see what the appeal is.
I could only read part of your initial post, but one of the things that seemed to stand out is that you viewed this man as your knight in shining armor come to rescue you.... again. That's great for Disney, not so great for adult's living in the real world. If anyone viewed me like that I would run screaming for the hills.
To me, if two people do not come together as whole units in and of themselves, then it's going to be rocky going at best. Add to that that you are jumping from one man to another with no break..... When was the last time you were responsible for your own emotional and financial well being? This must be hell on the kids.
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