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that's a strawman, i never said anything about your 98 year old stepdad's mother, nor do i agree with your presumption that they represent male-female gender relations as a whole.
That is one of the aspects of a woman's workload. Caring for the parents, caring for the children, doing the lions share of running the home. The topic has little to do, if any, with your notions of pleasing a woman. Getting off your asses is what's called for.
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i don't think it is difficult to grasp. the guy in your story clearly does not prioritize taking care of his mother as much as his sister does. this seems consistent with what i said.
What you're saying, tho, has nothing to do with the topic.
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i get a kick out of your shaming attempt. "They will LEAD the rest of you.."
Not grasping that the trend is working the completely opposite way, like the article says. Men are dedicating LESS time to thinks we find unpleasant.
Yea, like taking care of your business. I have more faith in men than you do. I don't think "man-child" as a goal is something that just comes naturally to men. And I think, in time, women will stop picking up their slack and give a good swift kick in the ass when needed. Clearly, women have been giving men this swift kick in the ass out the door in droves for some time now. My mom put up with it, but she raised a daughter that will not, just as I will raise my children. Transition takes time.
Any study can be stacked to result in a desired outcome.
If they are comparing only men and women who work outside the home then its not fair that men do less work around the house. But if they are comparing men and women in general, and since a significant number of women do not work outside the home then of course the average number of hours worked inside the home would be higher for women which is only fair.
Regardless, the gaps are closing in the household.
I think that's where socioeconomic class comes in. The more educated or higher the class (for want of a better term--I know it sounds elitist), the more likely it is that at dinner parties, you'll find the men in the kitchen and the women in the living room sipping wine and nibbling on tapas.
At least, that's what I've experienced and noticed. Put together a dinner party of highly educated people, and the men are not only in the kitchen, they are making the ravioli by hand.
Otherwise, yeah. I joke that Thanksgiving is Women's Enslavement Day.
Sorry, I don't buy it. We can read studies all day long and can probably find an equal amount of studies that contradict one another, so which is right and which is wrong?
Then I dare you to find these contradicting studies. Go ahead. Most of the contradicting "studies" people go on about are blogs, forum posts, all around nothingness.
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But going by a random sampling of people I know, I can honestly say that work and household responsibilities to include parenting are split evenly down the middle. There are always going to be exceptions and holdovers but for the most part, women have it easier in the home today more than ever. That's not to say it's easy, but it's certainly not as labor intensive as it was for our mothers and grandmothers and generations prior.
The days of the average man coming home from his 9 - 5 gig and kicking his feet up on the ottoman and being served hand and foot are over.
Going by a random sample of people I know, and then generalizing that sample, a majority of folk must be highly educated scientists earning well into the six figures, who have not one, but two nannies and their kids in Montessori schools (yes, it's true. I have collegues that pay more in property taxes than many earn in a year). Of course, I know better than to generalize my reality. I'm surprised you don't, coolhand. That is the point of reviewing studies, census, etc. To give us a clue as to what's happening outside our own day-to-day.
Any study can be stacked to result in a desired outcome.
If they are comparing only men and women who work outside the home then its not fair that men do less work around the house. But if they are comparing men and women in general, and since a significant number of women do not work outside the home then of course the average number of hours worked inside the home would be higher for women which is only fair.
Regardless, the gaps are closing in the household.
You should try reading the links your posting.
From the first one" Mothers, though, are still doing more, according to the latest data. Women in dual-earner families put in about three hours of housework a day — one-third more than their husbands. "
And lets be clear. The issue isn't about SAHMs, but women working in and out of the home. If you read the articles linked in the OP you will see this.
That is an insignificant aspect of women's workloads. Not all women have parents, not all of them have parents which need to be taken care of.
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Caring for the parents, caring for the children, doing the lions share of running the home. The topic has little to do, if any, with your notions of pleasing a woman. Getting off your asses is what's called for.
What you're saying, tho, has nothing to do with the topic.
I'm amused at how you keep reframing the topic from a woman's perspective, because that is exactly why men are happier than women; we are incrasingly refusing to buy into a woman's idea of what does, and does not need to be done.
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Yea, like taking care of your business.
I take care of my business and have plenty of time to spare. That's why I'm happy; I don't bite off more than I can chew.
Women bite off more than they can chew by habit, and then look to "their man" to fill the time, effort, and money deficit that arises from their choices and expectations.
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I have more faith in men than you do. I don't think "man-child" as a goal is something that just comes naturally to men.
I don't consider minimizing your hassles in life to be akin to being a "man-child."
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And I think, in time, women will stop picking up their slack and give a good swift kick in the ass when needed.
I admit, I admire your optimism. I think it's funny how you expect men to think and behave like women, and get upset when we don't.
Mothers, though, are still doing more, according to the latest data. Women in dual-earner families put in about three hours of housework a day — one-third more than their husbands.
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68
If they are comparing only men and women who work outside the home then its not fair that men do less work around the house. But if they are comparing men and women in general, and since a significant number of women do not work outside the home then of course the average number of hours worked inside the home would be higher for women which is only fair.
You should try reading your own link. The first study discusses dual-earner families.
Apropos of nothing, I just read a book that had the line "women cook because people need to eat. Men cook to show off."
I do think things are changing for the better, and many couples have teamwork down pat. Many couples don't, though, as the surveys and links have shown. My parents are of the older generation, and my mother constantly sighs and says, "it would never occur to your father to do XYZ. He just doesn't see that it needs to be done." Of course, she's trained him to be like that by swooping in and silently taking care of things.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
We're not quite there yet.
Time Crunch for [URL="http://chronicle.com/article/Female-Scientists-Do-More/63641/"]Female Scientists[/URL]: They Do More Housework Than Men
Well, yes, I am just talking about dinner parties and cooking.
Cleaning bathrooms, not so much. Been there, myself. My choices were: Continue to enable, fight over housework whenever it needed to be done, live in a sty, or divorce.
I took the fourth option. He made a great rack of lamb for dinner parties, but the man couldn't find a scrub brush if you gave him a map and a compass. It is daily living that matters most in a marriage or partnership.
I don't really think one could conclude that men are happier than women. It's way too much of a generalization. You could find so many exceptions to that statement so as to render it meaningless.
And I'm assuming that you are aware that men commit suicide far more often than do women?
I'm a drums & percussion instructor, and I'm currently volunteering some of my time to work with local veterans here in Austin through a Music Therapy program at the VA. Lots and lots of unhappy and damaged men there, I can tell you.
So: NO, I do not think that it is at all accurate to say that men are happier. But if I were to play Devil's Advocate and try and make an argument supporting the OP statement, I would say that perhaps men are happier because they tend to be less in touch with their emotions, and therfore do not dwell on the negative ones that can lead to depression.
Also, men tend to identify themselves with what they do for a living. Ergo, a man can often immerse himself into his work as a way to avoid troubling worries or emotions or social life problems.
(Alas, there is a negative side to that: if a man is unemployed or feels his job is beneath him, he is likely to allow that fact to impact his self-esteem moreso than a woman would.)
Last edited by DrummerBoy; 11-18-2011 at 10:09 AM..
I think that's where socioeconomic class comes in. The more educated or higher the class (for want of a better term--I know it sounds elitist), the more likely it is that at dinner parties, you'll find the men in the kitchen and the women in the living room sipping wine and nibbling on tapas.
At least, that's what I've experienced and noticed. Put together a dinner party of highly educated people, and the men are not only in the kitchen, they are making the ravioli by hand.
Otherwise, yeah. I joke that Thanksgiving is Women's Enslavement Day.
What, Women's Enslavement Day? They must have gotten it from my family. We've been saying that as long as I can remember, the 70s, at least.
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