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Your choice is valid, but you have no clue where life is going to take you. To assume that you do is preposterous. And to assume that you never want kids forever is preposterous. You say that you never want to jump off a skyscraper and hit the pavement. Well.. people have actually jumped off skyscrapers and hit the pavement.. I'm also pretty sure, years prior, they may have said "I will never jump off of a skyscraper and hit the pavement."
There is nothing wrong with saying I do not want kids. But to say, I do not want kids forever "truly childfree" is different.
It's not preposterous to hold views about what you do and do not want out of life. I am never going to be religious, I am an atheist, and I'm never going to want kids. Don't question my philosophical views. I don't care if someone else does want kids, yay, good for them, more kids in the world, future consumers, wonderful. But I don't want kids and I'm not going to change my mind. The idea of telling someone that they cannot think ANYTHING because they could change their mind, now that's preposterous. You are equating wanting kids with perhaps something like enjoying roller coasters. I don't like roller coasters, I doubt I ever will, but if I changed my mind it wouldn't be a big deal. Changing my mind about wanting kids would be like changing my mind about what the meaning of life is or what I think about the holocaust.
Look, I think Hitler was a horrible and idiotic dictator who committed unspeakable acts. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow, or two years from now, or twenty years from now, and change my mind and think, gee, you know, that Hitler, he was really an ok guy after all! The same as I'm not going to wake up and change my mind that there is after all an imaginary god watching over me. Or that I suddenly do want kids. I'm sorry, people have their beliefs and their viewpoints and these are not going to change for any reason because they are strong convictions. If you think I change my mind about much, you obviously don't know me.
It's not preposterous to hold views about what you do and do not want out of life. I am never going to be religious, I am an atheist, and I'm never going to want kids. Don't question my philosophical views. I don't care if someone else does want kids, yay, good for them, more kids in the world, future consumers, wonderful. But I don't want kids and I'm not going to change my mind. The idea of telling someone that they cannot think ANYTHING because they could change their mind, now that's preposterous. You are equating wanting kids with perhaps something like enjoying roller coasters. I don't like roller coasters, I doubt I ever will, but if I changed my mind it wouldn't be a big deal. Changing my mind about wanting kids would be like changing my mind about what the meaning of life is or what I think about the holocaust.
Look, I think Hitler was a horrible and idiotic dictator who committed unspeakable acts. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow, or two years from now, or twenty years from now, and change my mind and think, gee, you know, that Hitler, he was really an ok guy after all! The same as I'm not going to wake up and change my mind that there is after all an imaginary god watching over me. Or that I suddenly do want kids. I'm sorry, people have their beliefs and their viewpoints and these are not going to change for any reason because they are strong convictions. If you think I change my mind about much, you obviously don't know me.
I agree!! I know I am never going to want a third child. I still get grief from people who try to convince me that I really do want more kids. Or tell me that I really do want to be a stay-at-home mom.
I know this is a touchy subject for some but a discussion could perhaps lead to a better understanding among all of us.
Are those people/couples without children (who often refer to themselves as childfree) treated fairly in America's increasingly child-centered society? I'd like a tax break for not contributing to the overpopulation problem. Also, it's tiresome to hear from folks that I know nothing about kids just because I didn't reproduce. I was a kid once. I also helped raise my step-daughter.
Why are the childfree accused of hating children (just because they don't have them)? We have less tolerance usually, simply because we aren't used to them but most don't hate kids.
The assumption that we don't have kids because we are selfish jerks comes into play at this point.
Selfish jerk=kid hater
Folks have no idea how much heat we take from friends, family and even casual aquaintances because we are childfree. It never ceases to amaze me how a total stranger feels the need to question me about my personal choices.
How many childfree couples become second class citizens in their extended family because of their decision? I've spent most of my adult life hearing from certain people that I'm not a REAL woman because I haven't given birth. Oh PULEEZE!!!
Are the childfree picking up the slack at work for the parents who must often leave early for family committments? Yes
Why is it that a parent who volunteers to help coach youth soccer, etc is seen positively while someone without children doing so is seen as a bit creepy? Too many news reports about creepy child molesters being involved in kids programs to ignore them.
Do those with children respect the life choices of the childfree? Do the childfree respect the life choices of those with children?
Often, people just don't understand us not having kids anymore than we understand why somebody would. The reasons that someone doesn't have children are varied. Some people can't for medical reasons while others just don't want the responsibility.
I'm really surprised that you despise Hitler. I would have thought you wanted to be more like him by some of your posts.
Eg: your homeless post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB
Look, I think Hitler was a horrible and idiotic dictator who committed unspeakable acts. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow, or two years from now, or twenty years from now, and change my mind and think, gee, you know, that Hitler, he was really an ok guy after all! The same as I'm not going to wake up and change my mind that there is after all an imaginary god watching over me. Or that I suddenly do want kids. I'm sorry, people have their beliefs and their viewpoints and these are not going to change for any reason because they are strong convictions. If you think I change my mind about much, you obviously don't know me.
It seems like the childless people are left out and looked down on. Like being single and childless past 30. Not really considered a good thing here. So yea.
It seems like the childless people are left out and looked down on. Like being single and childless past 30. Not really considered a good thing here. So yea.
Are you saying that there are no Atheists that ever converted to Buddhism/Hinduism/Christianity, or vice versa? The fact is, core beliefs are changed every day no matter how core they are.
Usually it takes a personal crisis or other life changing event to bring it on, but the fact is, it happens, to almost everyone if not everyone. Do you still believe 100% all the things that you believed 5 years ago?
Take a vegan, for example. The most hardcore vegan, for whatever reasons, has developed a core belief that eating meat is wrong and is something that they will never do for the rest of their life.. period. However, they still have incisors, and their body still maintains the ability to convert fat and protien from meat into energy. So.. take that same vegan and drop them in a desert or some other terrain where there are no significant edible plants around. They may last for a little while, but once their survival instincts sink in, see how quickly all of their beliefs go out the window. They will be munching on gazelle, zebra, or any other edible animal they can get their hands on.
There are Christians in the Army, but on the battlefield, many of their beliefs are forced to be put to the wayside. Once it is about survival, many moral/social/religious beliefs become compromised.
That being said..
How about a different way to look at the whole thing..
Going off of LiveTodayLez08's comments..
Maybe it is not a choice at all. Maybe you cannot choose whether or not to have biological kids any more than you can choose who you are sexually attracted to. Whether you are sterile by choice or by nature, maybe it is for the same purpose. Your genes are no longer needed in the collective gene pool and they are pleading with you for whatever reason to keep them out.
Maybe that is why the childfree by choice notion is such a deep down belief that people have so much trouble understanding.
I believe that most people consider breeding a part of survival. Not their own survival but the survival of their genes. From what I've heard, any parent or grandparent would easily endanger their own life to save their child's life. Maybe it is why many voluntarily, without an ounce of complaint, give their own life to their child, no questions asked.
Maybe your genes are smarter than you give them credit for. I mean let’s face it, the fact that any of us are walking around at all is a fairly incomprehensible feat. Think of the 1000s of generations of your ancestors and all they had to endure just so you can experience any life at all, good or bad. Maybe that explains the strange remote communication link between some twins, or how a mother will sometimes get a strong gut feeling if their child is in danger.
So possibly, whether you are sterile by choice or by nature, maybe it is for the same purpose. Your genes are no longer needed to further the human race or society in general. But that would require every to remove the “choice” part from “childfree by choice”.
Last edited by halogore; 11-18-2008 at 07:01 PM..
Reason: metadata got pasted
I. cant. stand. children.
Period. End of story. I dont want them around me, I dont want to hear them. I tolerate it because I have to, but in a perfect, Colddiamond world, I'd never hear them again.
They arent cute, they arent sweet, from newborn to teenager they're nothing but a nuisance that I want nothing to do with. I hate it when other women ask me if I have children, when Im going to have them, how many I want, etc, etc.
Then get that indignant look on their faces when I tell them no, never, and zero unless it has 4 legs, a tail, and likes to chase the mailman or mice.
I don't like children. Not one bit. I don't feel maternal at all and I don't think I would be a good mother. I don't want a little brat tailing after me my whole life.
I also hate the fact that women with children are basically given priority for everything. Pregnant? Oh here, take this lovely parking spot. Being pregnant isn't a burden or a handicap and NO incentives
should be given.
Not to mention those house-sized strollers on the bus/skytrain. Makes me want to punch a cloud!
Are you saying that there are no Atheists that ever converted to Buddhism/Hinduism/Christianity, or vice versa? The fact is, core beliefs are changed every day no matter how core they are.
Usually it takes a personal crisis or other life changing event to bring it on, but the fact is, it happens, to almost everyone if not everyone. Do you still believe 100% all the things that you believed 5 years ago?
Take a vegan, for example. The most hardcore vegan, for whatever reasons, has developed a core belief that eating meat is wrong and is something that they will never do for the rest of their life.. period. However, they still have incisors, and their body still maintains the ability to convert fat and protien from meat into energy. So.. take that same vegan and drop them in a desert or some other terrain where there are no significant edible plants around. They may last for a little while, but once their survival instincts sink in, see how quickly all of their beliefs go out the window. They will be munching on gazelle, zebra, or any other edible animal they can get their hands on.
There are Christians in the Army, but on the battlefield, many of their beliefs are forced to be put to the wayside. Once it is about survival, many moral/social/religious beliefs become compromised.
That being said..
How about a different way to look at the whole thing..
Going off of LiveTodayLez08's comments..
Maybe it is not a choice at all. Maybe you cannot choose whether or not to have biological kids any more than you can choose who you are sexually attracted to. Whether you are sterile by choice or by nature, maybe it is for the same purpose. Your genes are no longer needed in the collective gene pool and they are pleading with you for whatever reason to keep them out.
Maybe that is why the childfree by choice notion is such a deep down belief that people have so much trouble understanding.
I believe that most people consider breeding a part of survival. Not their own survival but the survival of their genes. From what I've heard, any parent or grandparent would easily endanger their own life to save their child's life. Maybe it is why many voluntarily, without an ounce of complaint, give their own life to their child, no questions asked.
Maybe your genes are smarter than you give them credit for. I mean let’s face it, the fact that any of us are walking around at all is a fairly incomprehensible feat. Think of the 1000s of generations of your ancestors and all they had to endure just so you can experience any life at all, good or bad. Maybe that explains the strange remote communication link between some twins, or how a mother will sometimes get a strong gut feeling if their child is in danger.
So possibly, whether you are sterile by choice or by nature, maybe it is for the same purpose. Your genes are no longer needed to further the human race or society in general. But that would require every to remove the “choice” part from “childfree by choice”.
Haha, you really are arrogant. You think that somehow someone choosing not to have kids means they have bad genes? I have excellent genes, I don't want kids because I am smart enough to realize it's not in my best interest.
If you read "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins you will learn more about the fact that your genes are not always acting in your best interest. The idea that you should do something because it passes on your genes, well that's just stupid. Nature and your genes are often actively acting against your best interests. Sacrificing yourself to save a kid is stupid, it makes no sense except from the perspective of genes, which means it's really a war: YOU versus your genes, and since people are now smart enough to overcome mere biological impulse and nature, they can keep nature in its proper place. It's like emotions -- it's good to have them, but you should always be in control of them, not the other way around. Same is true with genes. We all have them, but you should assert your will over them, not the other way around. Acting to "pass on your genes" is acting like a tool or a slave to nature. As Yulaw would say in The One, "I am Gabriel Yulaw! I am NOBODY's b**ch. YOU ALL are mine!" You can't let what is inside of you control you, it is the mark of a strong individual to have his biological impulses and emotional impulses in control and in check, always subservient to him, never the master, always the slave.
And the fact that people in general can change their mind about religion doesn't concern me -- who cares. I'm not changing my mind. You seem to think since some other douche somewhere else changed their mind about this or that, it somehow applies to me, and means that everyone could change their minds about anything. That's really not true. You change your mind because you were never certain in the first place. I'm quite certain how I feel and what I want.
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