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Sorry, you are wrong. Humans have few true instincts anymore. Evolution has changed us, we are much more complicated than animals and because of our higher brain functioning society shapes us more than any instincts. We are not arguing semantics either, we are arguing basic meanings that many people here just don't have an understanding of.
Well, she's talking about humans from 10-20 million years ago, so it's possibly a brand of human/fairy people.
Sorry, you are wrong. Humans have few true instincts anymore. Evolution has changed us, we are much more complicated than animals and because of our higher brain functioning society shapes us more than any instincts. We are not arguing semantics either, we are arguing basic meanings that many people here just don't have an understanding of.
Djuna, you really have to take a marketing psychology course some day. Your eyes would be so opened it wouldn't be funny. People operate 90 percent of the time on instinct and do not realize it. When you are concentrating on something and someone makes a loud noise and you jump about four feet is INSTINCT kicking in the "fight or flight" mechanism.
Placement of food items in the grocery store is based upon the fact that people (who are right handed) instinctively go to the right when they enter a store. They place expensive, processed food items at eye level because our "hunter/gatherer" instinct makes us look there first for food. They put sexy women in ads for tires because of men's instinctual sexual drive and they put babies in commercials for life insurance because we instinctively want to protect our young.
Dear God, there have been BOOKS written about this very thing. It's legend in the marketing industry.
I understand that 20years, but it doesn't correspond with your claim that our gender roles are instinctual. There will always be a certain element but the fact that we can manipulate those roles prove they are not strongly innate.
I understand that 20years, but it doesn't correspond with your claim that our gender roles are instinctual. There will always be a certain element but the fact that we can manipulate those roles prove they are not strongly innate.
It's a soft straw man. Placing an object for sale in the line of vision for a person, so they can actually see it, is not some in depth psychological approach; let alone attempting to correlate it to an argument for gender roles. It's absurd.
gender roles being caused by differences in men and women back in the day? You bet, but not just psychological.
If you wanted to lift blocks all day long, crawling UP around a foundation, or push a plow all day, etc., 90% of the time a man was going to be better.
Add to that that it would be better not to have pregnant women doing this, nor women who just had a baby, and SOMEONE needed to be around to take care of the baby, and it might as well have been the one with the milk, and the traditional gender roles are pretty easy to understand.
Technology has freed the limitations that created gender roles (simple example, breast pumps, and freezing mom's milk)
But if you ask me, a lot of the turnaround is our BS, non-free economy where we as a society think we're better than physcial labor, and try to pigeonhole everyone into college and some kind of office work. But really thewre's only so much paperwork to be done, and There still is a lot of physical work to be done, and there would be even more so if our economy were really free, and it looks like we may be headed that way the way the eocnomy's going.
Last edited by Peanuttree; 10-16-2012 at 11:40 AM..
^^^ Google Sojourner Truth's Ain't I a Woman speech. Plenty of women have pulled a plow...did heavy lifting etc. My own grandmother gave birth to 12 children and worked alongside my grandfather on their farm. The woman could lasso cows and butcher hogs. Only the privileged classes could afford to have a woman stay in the house and only do "women's work" The average family needed everyone to do manual labor just to survive.
Revisionist history.
Women have worked inside and outside of the house alongside men (without any credit) for millenia. The industrial revolution created the notion of the commoner housewife.
^^^ Google Sojourner Truth's Ain't I a Woman speech. Plenty of women have pulled a plow...did heavy lifting etc. My own grandmother gave birth to 12 children and worked alongside my grandfather on their farm. The woman could lasso cows and butcher hogs. Only the privileged classes could afford to have a woman stay in the house and only do "women's work" The average family needed everyone to do manual labor just to survive.
Revisionist history.
Women have worked inside and outside of the house alongside men (without any credit) for millenia. The industrial revolution created the notion of the commoner housewife.
This is true. People tend to forget that back when this country first started, every single member of working class families; the husband, the wife, the children, use to do physical labor outside the home considering that most families were farmers.
This is true. People tend to forget that back when this country first started, every single member of working class families; the husband, the wife, the children, use to do physical labor outside the home considering that most families were farmers.
And even with families that weren't farmers, taking care of a home pre-industrialization wasn't easy. We're not talking about rich women with servants doing needlepoint and drinking tea, we're talking about women cooking dinner over a fire with no fancy appliances, doing laundry with a washboard, making and mending clothes for the family, etc.
Poppycock. Such women were/are the exception, and for all you know they probably did less of the share of that stuff. A LOT of women are significantly smaller and weaker than men. Former Secretary in our office would ask me to put the water on the water cooler!
Basic biiology limits all this. Men have like 50 times more testosterone or something. They even tell women not to worry about getting muscly/bulky from doing weightlifting, since they just CAN'T naturally, at least not easily/quickly as a man, and there's straight-up a size limit they have
Daily housework and gardening isn't the kind of hard, heavy work I'm talking about. Yeah you can garden and cook and lasso and stuff, but certain key things require repeated heavy muscle action.
So why is it that for most animals, its the females who watch over the offspring (ex: Birds)? More often than not, its not the male that has to go out and get food for the clan.
Why is it that most of the male animals are expected to go after the females (though there are a few species where its the opposite)?
People please stop comparing humans to animals. Behaviors that are instinctual for some species of animals are not what is innate or “natural” behaviors for humans. Animals lick their own butts, eat their feces, male goats pee in their own faces, some species kill their mate after copulation, some care for their young, some abandon their young, some eat their young, some mate for life, some mate with many, etc. etc. etc.
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