Friend's husband wants her to be a submissive housewife (kid, advice, spouse)
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As I initially stated, it really doesn't matter what any of us say or think since we're not friends with the person in the OP. So, we're going in circles here. I don't think the OPs understanding of marriage, or at least if her understanding aligns with yours, really matters.
Our opinions became relevant when this thread was opened.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
So what? That doesn't mean friends shouldn't be tapped as a resource for support. It's unhealthy to suggest it. The people who love you are always going to be biased towards you and that's totally normal. If you're not in a abusive marriage, then your friends are going to care about your spouse as well to a degree. Your friends are not going to want to see you unhappy, etc.
I am not saying that friends shouldn't be consulted. Friends can be helpful in their own way. However, in case of advice regarding relationships; bias can become an issue. Try to understand this.
Maybe this post may enlighten you:
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Originally Posted by KenFL
There is always 3 sides to every story, his, hers and the truth which is usually found somewhere in the middle...
I don't believe that I have ever heard 1 side of a story, relayed to a friend, as having complete & accurate details... Somehow, it always changes when the 2 people are telling it face to face... Imagine that! Twisting a story a bit to get some sympathy, who would do that?
Maybe they did talk about breast feeding before birth and she became unsure at the zero hour...
Personally, a man & wife, in the privacy of their own home, can run around naked all they want... I don't believe permanent memory arrives until the 3rd year... What is wrong with being naked anyway? It is how we are born, but in a marriage it is a bad thing?...
Gossip on the domestic level has sure ruined many relationships... The best of intentions do not always have favorable results, sometimes devastating... It is not your life, it is their lives and they are adults... I find it best to stay out of other peoples marital affairs unless a serious crime is being committed such as physical abuse, child abuse, drug abuse and such... JMHO
Peace.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
I don't buy it. Abuse doesn't usually occur temporarily.
You don't buy this because you don't know. Abuse can range from being mild to severe. In addition, a person can be abusive only when he or she is angry; he or she may be well behaved otherwise. Things are not so black and white in relationships.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
And I don't understand what you're getting at with "should these ... be judged as well?" What does that matter? People who are abused and don't share are playing out their dysfunctional role in the abusive relationship. They are, essentially, hurting themselves as much as the abusive spouse is. If that's how they want play it, it's their business, but it's not positive. It's not healthy.
I understand your point. My intended point is that it is unhealthy to disclose every issue of your relationship to outsiders. Those issues which can be addressed privately; should not be disclosed. This is age of information. It is easy to learn about lot of things at home. In relationships, privacy has its own importance.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
This kind of reminds me of my grandmother. I was on the phone with her last night and she talked about her late husband (she's 94 now and he's been dead for decades). He used to beat her. She would go to work with black eyes and lie about it and tell her co-workers she fell down. Back then you just didn't talk about it. So, she was beaten, her kids (my mom) were beaten. It really ruined their lives. Such a thing would have a better outcome today because people are not as quiet as they used to be.
I am sorry about your grandmother. I think that disclosure becomes important if the abuse is of severe nature.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
I think you are too wrapped up in judging. Judgements from strangers are irrelevant.
No. My perceptions are not 100% compatible with yours. Hence, this discussion.
That makes sense and dad not being involved is my main issue. Doing both seems to be a good idea too.
Well, in case of your friend - her husband is taking interest in this activity (maybe in ill-adviced fashion) and the issue is that the wife is not interested?
This is why friends (themselves) are not always in the best position to advice on the dynamics of a relationship that is not their own. Not every relationship has similar dynamics.
Hopefully counseling may resolve the issue of your friend in need.
Our opinions became relevant when this thread was opened.
I mean to specific situations. None are relevant to the subject of the OP, who is that mom/wife. And really, there are actually no opinions about her marriage in this thread that address that woman and her situation since none of use are privy to it.
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I am not saying that friends shouldn't be consulted. Friends can be helpful in their own way. However, in case of advice regarding relationships; bias can become an issue. Try to understand this.
I have a hard time understanding it. The only thing that comes to mind for me where bias may play a role is for a couple of middle school kids who are going steady. I suppose I'm not familiar enough with the kinds of people where bias is going to matter. It's out of my sphere. Regardless, I don't see why it matters if there is perceived abuse.
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You don't buy this because you don't know. Abuse can range from being mild to severe. A person can be abusive when angry; he or she may be good natured otherwise. Things are not so black and white in relationships.
What does it matter if a person is good-natured otherwise? I imagine most abuse occurs when people are angry. So what? Mature adults should be able to control themselves when they are angry. If they lack this ability there is something wrong with them. Wrong in their cores and given that these people are broken, they are not likely able to fix themselves and require outside help.
Further, I have had many relationships and am now married. While "things" may not always be black and white, abuse is always wrong. So, that's pretty black and white.
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I understand your point. My intended point is that it is unhealthy to disclose every issue of your relationship to outsiders. Those issues which can be addressed privately; should not be disclosed. This is age of information. It is easy to learn about lot of things at home. In relationships, privacy has its own importance.
We're not discussing every issue. We're discussing perceived abuse. If a couple has a disagreement over how to arrange the furniture, what stain to use on the fence, etc that's not something most people need or would want to hear about. Abuse should always have light cast upon it. That's what we're discussing. You are trying to excuse abuse and reconcile privacy for abuse, which tends to extend it. I find that interesting. I don't get it.
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I am sorry about your grandmother. I think that disclosure becomes important if the abuse is of severe nature.
Well, that's the thing. Who is to decide what is severe and what isn't? It's not for you or me, but for the person and people involved.
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No. My perceptions are not 100% compatible with yours. Hence, this discussion.
This has nothing to do with what I stated. You seem to be overly concerned about the potential abuser being judged. Why?
Not enlighten me really because I'm fully aware that many on this forum are dysfunctional people, incapable of healthy relationships and the people in their lives are of a similar cloth. So, not enlightening, but sad (sort of).
Abuse during or after a pregnancy is text book. Your friend needs help. It usually doesn't do any good to suggest someone that controlled leave, they are often incapable by the time they are abused and controlled to that degree. You could suggest your local abuse crisis center to her. And you could make sure you are available day and night. What I would also suggest is that perhaps you call the crisis center and share exactly what you've told us, and ask how best to help your friend without also putting her into harms way. The most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is often when the woman leaves. Here is a link, hope it helps. Many more links online.. Help for Abused & Battered Women: Domestic Violence Shelters & Support
This man is about 3 seconds away from hitting her.
She needs out.
Typically people down play the abuse. He may have already been hitting her...And you're right. She needs to get out. The dynamics of abuse are very astounding and very hard to understand unless you've been there or are trained professionally. That is why folks on here that are posting "She could just leave".."She must have known already". "He is just traditional" thought they sound that way, aren't being mean or callous, they simply have no concept and no ability to really understand this type situation.
Think "Stockholm syndrome" Older folks, think "Pattie Hearst" kidnapping....the dynamics are almost paralyzing when you are the victim. You may even know logically what you should do, but emotionally you may be terrified....afraid to leave.... afraid to stay...it can be a total nightmare.
Also, there are many types of abuse...even verbal abuse makes you feel the same sick feeling in the pit of your stomach as physical....the physical you can at least show someone your bruises. Many people have no idea, or even sympathy because they do not understand what real abuse is like. Lucky folks.
OP...get yourself educated so that when you are asked for help you know exactly where to direct her to turn to.
I mean to specific situations. None are relevant to the subject of the OP, who is that mom/wife. And really, there are actually no opinions about her marriage in this thread that address that woman and her situation since none of use are privy to it.
I think that some members (including me) have given reasonable advice to the woman in question on the basis of what has been disclosed in this thread about her marriage related issues. End result is that the woman in question decided to seek counseling after going through this thread, as per revelation by her friend here. Therefore, I fail to understand that how even sincere advices are irrelevant for the situation of woman in question.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
I have a hard time understanding it. The only thing that comes to mind for me where bias may play a role is for a couple of middle school kids who are going steady. I suppose I'm not familiar enough with the kinds of people where bias is going to matter. It's out of my sphere. Regardless, I don't see why it matters if there is perceived abuse.
Well yes, your experience is limited in this regard. This is understandable. However, world is far bigger then what you have experienced thus far.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
What does it matter if a person is good-natured otherwise? I imagine most abuse occurs when people are angry.
You are wrong. Some people are habitually abusive due to mental issues/disorders/low-self esteem or whatever. You need to distinguish the former group from good-natured group.
I myself am a good-natured person. However, I know that my patience has limits. This is true for huge number of people worldwide.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
So what? Mature adults should be able to control themselves when they are angry. If they lack this ability there is something wrong with them. Wrong in their cores and given that these people are broken, they are not likely able to fix themselves and require outside help.
And here-in lay the problem. Point is that humans are not perfect. Any sane person gets angry due to some reason. Even in case of anger; reaction level may range from being mild to severe - depending upon how much the angered person has been pissed off by the other person. Some people are good at controlling themselves during anger. Some are not. This does not means that the latter group does not deserves to be in relationships and are heartless. Of-course, I do not condone abuse in any way or form. But over-sensitivity is also harmful.
Example: Oh he slapped me today! We need to divorce. [I would rather like to find out what led to this act and then advice accordingly]
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Wrong in their cores and given that these people are broken, they are not likely able to fix themselves and require outside help.
I see generalization here. People with temper problems seek therapy on anger management for a reason. Some seek this therapy on their own due to their to desire to fix their anger issues for the sake of their partners/spouses. Some are however coerced/convinced to do so with outside help because these people are often mental patients.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Further, I have had many relationships and am now married. While "things" may not always be black and white, abuse is always wrong. So, that's pretty black and white.
Abuse is wrong. But people should have some level of tolerance in them. I dislike cry-babies.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
We're not discussing every issue. We're discussing perceived abuse. If a couple has a disagreement over how to arrange the furniture, what stain to use on the fence, etc that's not something most people need or would want to hear about. Abuse should always have light cast upon it. That's what we're discussing. You are trying to excuse abuse and reconcile privacy for abuse, which tends to extend it. I find that interesting. I don't get it.
Unfortunately, your sensitive nature prevents you from understanding my point-of-view in proper honesty. You are accusing me for defending abuse. I am not defending abuse but my point is that people should not be over-sensitive about this. Privacy in a relationship should not be limited to only materialistic aspects. Ups and downs are expected in a marriage and/or a serious relationship. This does not means that people should start disclosing every incident of domestic voilence they may face in a relationship unless the domestic voilence itself becomes the norm.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Well, that's the thing. Who is to decide what is severe and what isn't? It's not for you or me, but for the person and people involved.
This I can understand. However, domestic voilence has been categorized on the basis of its severity. So people can get an idea from such categorization.
Also, if people involved are mature enough to sort out their own issues in privacy by themselves; then their won't be too many issues/disclosures about relationships in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
This has nothing to do with what I stated. You seem to be overly concerned about the potential abuser being judged. Why?
You misunderstood my intentions. The institution of marriage should be respected. And people be guided about it. Marriage should not be equalized with a boy-girl cohabiting. Marriage symbolizes love in its finest form. If a marriage can be saved; it is worth the effort.
You need broader perspective of these matters to understand my position on this subject.
As far as judgement is concerned; it makes sense when we have FULL STORY to consider. Otherwise, judgements are premature.
I have also seen cases in which abusers saved themselves from being judged/penalized by lying to the outsiders while the true victims suffered hostility from the same outsiders. Get the picture?
Last edited by LeGenDary_Man; 10-21-2012 at 04:38 PM..
Datafeed seems to be stuck in the 1600s or something like that.
Some men are girlie, yes, but that doesn't mean they have to "dominate" their wife. Are you friggin' kidding me? The relationship is a relationship for a reason; it's all about communicating effectively and both parties putting in equal effort.
I agree that women should play a motherly role to the baby as far as feeding it and all that. But to say that if a guy wants to share that role a little too doesn't make him less of a man, it makes him a more well-rounded man, which I've come to find out that women tend to go for.
A wife would be much happier in a marriage if her husband had that sort of mindset. Once you're a father, it's not about whether or not you're a man or a woman, it's about being a good father and a good husband if you're married.
A happy relationship is one that's worthwhile for both parties. The family that the OP is talking about is definitely not going to be happy and sooner or later that woman is going to explode from all the abuse she's had to take upon herself just to please that SOB and his baby (even though it is her baby as well).
A happy relationship is one that's worthwhile for both parties. The family that the OP is talking about is definitely not going to be happy and sooner or later that woman is going to explode from all the abuse she's had to take upon herself just to please that SOB and his baby (even though it is her baby as well).
This is why counseling has been suggested. It is worth a try.
People also need to understand that if a wife is not compromising on anything; then she is also at fault. Even finest of the relationships can turn bad if both spouses fail to reach compromise on issues that they may face.
Controlling is subjective in case of marriage and/or serious relationships. This is why compromises are important.
Last edited by LeGenDary_Man; 10-21-2012 at 04:40 PM..
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[I would rather like to find out what led to this act and then advice accordingly]
