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Obviously not overkill enough, like has nothing to do with it. It isn't something that would even occur to me to think about. If I am interested in a girl I will go talk to her in the same way as if I'm interested in a sandwich I will go make it. I don't think about it at all. To look at it from another angle I am 50 and never once heard a man use the word initiate in regards to talking to a girl until I came here a few years ago. Not once.
That was supposed to be a bit of humor but with a point BTW. Clearly lost on you, my bad.
I got your point you don't really think about it that' just how you roll.
The lion analogy was funny to me because I can think of is the female doing a majority of the hunting and the male coming in a getting first dibs. Man it would good to be a lion.
I got a lovely DM from him as well, calling my mother a vermin prostitute, or something along those lines.
Yep. He's a 'good man' alright.
I am so sorry JJ, I had no idea that you received the DM that you had mentioned, with such hurtful comments like that... (And yes I think I may have missed having a chance to read the earlier deleted post, cited by another C-D user.)
Garonick is a perfect example of a man who has been rejected by women so many times, that he has become severely frustrated and has suffered a loss of his self-esteem and hope. Whether he is a "nice" guy or not, I'm not sure because I don't know him. But, even if he is/was a good guy, all of that is now covered by his anger and resentment at the women who are constantly rejecting him. It's a vicious cycle, really. He needs to let his bitterness and resentment subside, he needs to relax, take a deep breath, pick himself up, dust himself off and go back out there and let the "good" guy inside show through to the women he approaches. The DM he sent to Jet oozes anger and frustration at the highest level.
I have only been rejected twice in my entire life when I was younger and out in the dating scene. Those rejections hit me hard! I mean, I couldn't imagine being always rejected whenever I approached a guy! That would kill any confidence and self-esteem I had; and I, too, would've eventually became bitter, angry and resentful towards men. A person's anger and bitterness does and will show through whenever they approach someone they're interested in, no matter how much of a "good" person they may truly be on the inside. Even if they hide it well and are polite and courteous to someone on the outside - their anger and resentment that resides deep inside of them is intangible but detectable to those around them.
The part I highlighted above - at what point should you wonder what you're doing wrong if you're always being rejected? It's too easy to get angry at others rather than looking in the mirror to see what pattern you've created for yourself that the end result is always the same.
Additionally, nothing like directing your anger over past hurts towards people you've never met. I've been rejected before, my ex-husband cheated on me and left our marriage, essentially the ultimate rejection, yet I've been able to move forward in life and not blame future men for the past actions of my ex.
If I was getting constantly rejected, I would wonder where I was going wrong, not what everyone else was doing wrong.
The part I highlighted above - at what point should you wonder what you're doing wrongif you're always being rejected? It's too easy to get angry at others rather than looking in the mirror to see what pattern you've created for yourself that the end result is always the same.
Additionally, nothing like directing your anger over past hurts towards people you've never met. I've been rejected before, my ex-husband cheated on me and left our marriage, essentially the ultimate rejection, yet I've been able to move forward in life and not blame future men for the past actions of my ex.
If I was getting constantly rejected, I would wonder where I was going wrong, not what everyone else was doing wrong.
Yes. Men and women like Garonick need to let their anger and bitterness subside and then try to figure out what it is that they're most likely doing to keep on getting the undesirable results they're getting. Good post.
The part I highlighted above - at what point should you wonder what you're doing wrong if you're always being rejected? It's too easy to get angry at others rather than looking in the mirror to see what pattern you've created for yourself that the end result is always the same.
Additionally, nothing like directing your anger over past hurts towards people you've never met. I've been rejected before, my ex-husband cheated on me and left our marriage, essentially the ultimate rejection, yet I've been able to move forward in life and not blame future men for the past actions of my ex.
If I was getting constantly rejected, I would wonder where I was going wrong, not what everyone else was doing wrong.
While I commend on moving past your husbands infidelity that's more a matter of betrayal than rejection.
While garonicks actions are just awful and he has a lot of work on he is not the template for a guy that gets rejected a lot. Sometimes its not a matter of numbers it can many small rejections or one or two rejections that had a large impact on them. There are many men and woman who put the hate on themselves and hind it so its not really a one problem one solution answer.
I think its just better to treat certain posters on a case by case basis cause in the end its just generalization against generalization.
Garonick is a perfect example of a man who has been rejected by women so many times, that he has become severely frustrated and has suffered a loss of his self-esteem and hope. Whether he is a "nice" guy or not, I'm not sure because I don't know him. But, even if he is/was a good guy, all of that is now covered by his anger and resentment at the women who are constantly rejecting him. It's a vicious cycle, really. He needs to let his bitterness and resentment subside, he needs to relax, take a deep breath, pick himself up, dust himself off and go back out there and let the "good" guy inside show through to the women he approaches. The DM he sent to Jet oozes anger and frustration at the highest level.
I have only been rejected twice in my entire life when I was younger and out in the dating scene. Those rejections hit me hard! I mean, I couldn't imagine being always rejected whenever I approached a guy! That would kill any confidence and self-esteem I had; and I, too, would've eventually became bitter, angry and resentful towards men. A person's anger and bitterness does and will show through whenever they approach someone they're interested in, no matter how much of a "good" person they may truly be on the inside. Even if they hide it well and are polite and courteous to someone on the outside - their anger and resentment that resides deep inside of them is intangible but detectable to those around them.
While i think garonick is way past bitter and a little too misgonystic at times you make a good point in that i think sometimes men who constantly get rejected just become so hurt and rejected that they lash out and vent on places like here and it sometimes sounds harsh or that they hate women but its not the case its just that we want companionship so badly but cant get it so we just lose it sometimes and its more pain and hurt coming out not hatred..
Im not saying its right but when people men or women get hurt a lot we sometimes vent an say things we dont fully mean..
As a 32 year old whos never been in a relationship ive vented on here at times and said things that maybe come off a little harsh but i love women its just when you are lost and have no idea how to attract one the hurt and pain can be overwhelming and that comes out sometimes a little harsh..
As I can see initiating everything or in the beginning or whatever depends on if the woman in general sees any value in it its not like it is some sort of hive mind answer.
I got your point you don't really think about it that' just how you roll.
The lion analogy was funny to me because I can think of is the female doing a majority of the hunting and the male coming in a getting first dibs. Man it would good to be a lion.
Its the mane. If we had that mane.... lol
Seriously though, my point wasn't about me specifically and be aware my remarks speak to the thread in general and are not directed at you. Lions chase down gazelles because thats what lions do. We are men, we go get the girl because that is what men do. It doesn't matter why and time spent on waa waa is time wasted. When these young men start using the word initiate in regards to talking to women they need to immediately slap themselves and remember who they are. They are men. Men slay dragons. Men talk to girls. Men take out the garbage without being told.
Something to remember is while we were born to sweep women off their feet, they were born to be swept. That woman may not be available because she had a bad day at work or any of a million other reasons and one of them very well could be you are not the one. But she is available to someone at least some of the time because she is woman, she was designed to be attracted to men just as we are to women.
I agree with this posting. Women should go after what they want and go up to a guy if they're interested in him! What would the harm be in them initiating a polite or witty conversation with a man they're attracted to?? So what if they're rejected...it won't be the end of the world if that happens! This is what men go through all of the time. Why should it be up to the guy to get the ball rolling? Only confident women whose minds aren't cemented to the 1950s era understand this.
Yes, chivalry is not dead - thank goodness! But, this goes BOTH ways as well. When I was single, I initiated conversations with guys whose personalities and physicalities attracted me and I've also asked guys out on dates, bought them drinks and dinner and pursued them further. I've never had one guy thought I was "too aggressive" and, even though some of those situations didn't work out, they were all flattered and told me it was cool that I approached them first!
If some women still believe the outdated notion that they should just sit there and bat their eyelashes while the man does all of the initiating and pursuing, well...that's their preference. And if that works out to their advantage, then good for them. What I've learned though, from my past experiences, is that men are human beings with feelings and they desire to be wanted and pursued just like women do.
Well said. Some people bravely go for what they like, while others are stuck with their beliefs of how males and females are "supposed to act" because of biology, society, or whatever excuse they'd like to use. One-sided relationships aren't that fun.
As for chivalry, I'd just call it common courtesy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonds&pearls
Faint heart never wins fair maiden.
The guys complaining about the unfairness of it all - toughen the hell up.
You are men because you have testosterone, and you have testosterone to help you attract someone who likes testosterone - eg, (usually) female.
If you can't figure out what to do to follow your natural hunting instincts, and ours to sit back and wait to be "caught", it's hardly our fault.
Actually, both genders have testosterone....
As a guy, we are told by society to "toughen the hell up," not to cry, or get emotional. Just as ridiculous as reducing other human beings as meat to be "caught" or "possessed".
Ah, silly gender roles. I love challenging them.
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(And yes I think I may have missed having a chance to read the earlier deleted post, cited by another C-D user.)
Men and women like Garonick need to let their anger and bitterness subside and then try to figure out what it is that they're most likely doing to keep on getting the undesirable results they're getting. Good post.
So what if they're rejected...it won't be the end of the world if that happens! This is what men go through all of the time. Why should it be up to the guy to get the ball rolling? Only confident women whose minds aren't cemented to the 1950s era understand this. 
What I've learned though, from my past experiences, is that men are human beings with feelings and they desire to be wanted and pursued just like women do.
