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Maybe it's just where I'm from, but those gung ho about enlisting straight out of high school weren't the "best and brightest". I think they just wanted to be able to carry guns and shoot at brown people. They also tended to buy into the propaganda that they are somehow defending our freedom over there when really their actions are just being used to further promote hatred of the United States. Being a pawn on a banker's chess board doesn't seem all that awesome to me. When is the last time America has been literally invaded by another country? The mexican american war that ended in 1848? I don't count the civil war as everyone that fought was an American in my book. (Edit: I think the japs may have made an offensive move to some remote islands off the coast of Alaska, but were never a threat to invade mainland US).
Enlisting doesn't make someone a better/more patriotic American than your standard civilian doing their part in American society. If we were all soldiers, there wouldn't be things of real value being produced nor any tax revenues generated to "pay" for all the stuff they get to blow up half a world away. Bombs and bullets ain't cheap. There is an entirely too powerful influence that thrives on spending money we don't have on wars we have no business fighting. This isn't even counting the human cost in lives lost.
Last edited by Philosophizer; 06-24-2013 at 12:41 PM..
Maybe it's just where I'm from, but those gung ho about enlisting straight out of high school weren't the "best and brightest".
I don't know what you mean by that not the "best and brightest" exactly. I enlisted right out of high school. And yeah... a lot of the enlisted ranks are not filled with people with college degrees, contrary to the $$ rhetoric:
I think they just wanted to be able to carry guns and shoot at brown people. They also tended to buy into the propaganda that they are somehow defending our freedom over there when really their actions are just being used to further promote hatred of the United States. Being a pawn on a banker's chess board doesn't seem all that awesome to me. When is the last time America has been literally invaded by another country? The mexican american war that ended in 1848? I don't count the civil war as everyone that fought was an American in my book. (Edit: I think the japs may have made an offensive move to some remote islands off the coast of Alaska, but were never a threat to invade mainland US).
You are correct. Not since perhaps the end of WWII has the U.S. military been deployed to fight for the freedoms of the United States citizens. It's in the interests of the U.S. politicians and the money men behind them to portray the U.S. military that way because the U.S. will be back in a major war again with 10 or so years from now. The United States makes war on other nations but we won't fight people actually our size though. The U.S. is the epitome of a bully.
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Enlisting doesn't make someone a better/more patriotic American than your standard civilian doing their part in American society. If we were all soldiers, there wouldn't be things of real value being produced nor any tax revenues generated to "pay" for all the stuff they get to blow up half a world away. Bombs and bullets ain't cheap. There is an entirely too powerful influence that thrives on spending money we don't have on wars we have no business fighting. This isn't even counting the human cost in lives lost.
But there is a part you anti-military and pro-military people are clueless about. Take offense at that if you wish.
Sacrifice in combat and the military is not about simply or only rotating out and getting a college degree, the house with the white fence, and being happy with $$.
That's neither a hard price for service nor the cross termed "sacrifice."
The loss is much greater and runs much deeper.
Whoever produced this film or portion of this flick (JRR Tolkien was a war vet and college professor too I believe) knew a thing or two about the end of combat and drug addiction. They knew about coming "home" and the war never ending. About wounds that never heal.
What I'll never quite know is why my father wanted me to carry the curse. And he forewarned me--a Vietnam era veteran himself--when you return they'll never want to hear from you again.
Some prices are too great to pay. Had I been wiser I wold have served France in her Foreign Legion. I would have gotten French citizenship, learned French as a second language, and gotten around a superior environment from that of Milwaukee and the corrupted United States. I could have been in Paris.
Either that or I should have just went to college here in the U.S. right out of high school. I kick myself all the time for that.
Fortunately for me I know better now and will pursue the $$$$$$ and hit the world up outside the U.S. hopefully leaving this SAW movie in my rear-view mirrors.
With all due respect to Philosophizer's viewpoint as well as Supine's personal experience, I feel it is important to stress that people join the service for a myriad of reasons. When you start trying to put in a box and use a "one size fits all" description of peoples' reasons, you run into the same problems we see here on the CDR forum. The reasons are as wild and varied as the individuals.
A lot of people join the military out of purely honorable intentions. Some do it because their father was in. Some do it because they have no other options. Not everyone joins because they want to kill others. Not everyone who joins serves honorably. But many of them do, and do so without expecting so much as a pat on the back and a "job well done."
I personally joined the Marines in 1999 because it is what I wanted to do. I could have gone to college, as I had a high GPA and offers for athletic scholarships to run track/cross country at a few universities. Back then I could pull three miles in well under 15 minutes, and that was at 6,000+ feet altitude. I had a few universities make offers, but I WANTED to be in the Marines. There wasn't a war going on at that time, either.
Since then I have taken advantage of a lot of opportunities through the Marines. I've earned two degrees and have crossed from the enlisted ranks to the officer ranks. It has been a good experience and I feel I have learned a lot from it.
I don't think someone is better just because he served in any branch of the military. I don't think frat boys are bad just because they are frat boys. But I can say that serving in the military has been a rewarding experience for me and I am definitely a better man for it. I wouldn't change a thing.
As a veteran I find it funny that you differentiate between the two I'll be honest when I was in the Army I was wild..partying/drinking/lush/etc..heck almost like a frat lol.
As a student previously living at a place that is the closest thing to an american frathouse, I have to say I've met some of the most down to earth nice and easy going people I know right along side with the irresponsible partyanimal, no-tomorrow-attitude types of people.
I think people come in with a certain template when they go to university here and gain some new experiences, most will do some acting out at some part of the journey, but most who leave at age 24-28 after 5-6 years seem very adult compared to the 18-21 year olds who start every year...
I moved away from all the loudness and drinking etc now but I still think a majority of the people i lived with were ordinary decent humanbeings. The douches/partyanimals/too cool for schoolers etc are probably less than every 1 in 10, but they make 99% of the noise still so of course they are what you notice.
Somebody mentioned military women vs sorority girls;
I can't immagine a guy who'd make much of a difference in terms of who they are, if anything I think military women would have a dissadvantage if they are for example going out over seas for months at a time or have position with a large risk of not making it home...
I mentioned earlier that it's possible to be both. What I was talking about are the guys who joined the military right after high school as compared to going to college. Quite a few enlisted people have degrees or at least some college. When I went to boot camp several of my shipmates had associate degree's, which was enough to get a higher rank but not to be an officer. There was a woman in the paper who has a bachelor degree but joined as enlisted (personally if this was me I'd join as an officer).
My boyfriend enlisted already having earned a bachelor's; he wanted to be a Chief.
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I enlisted right out of high school. And yeah... a lot of the enlisted ranks are not filled with people with college degrees, contrary to the $$ rhetoric: 
