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Agreed. It just plays on men's insecurities & also promotes misogynistic ideas. It's bad for men and women...
And yes, tons of average guys are not "frustrated chumps" - they are in actual relationships with average women because they don't turn dating into some game where notches on their belt indicate their self-value.
And here is the PUA bashing from people who have never had a need for it, never really attempted it or did it wrong. Yes, average people get girls. That's because for a lot of people these skills come natural.
Dating requires some skills. Without those skills, she is likely to get bored, and she will break off or always end in the friends zone. Not for everyone does it come natural to hold eye contact, to flirt by touching, to sometimes act distant, to take initiative, etc. Why should people who are struggling not read material about how to attract girls?
PUA is the only source who give concrete information about what to do. Most other dating advice are either very non-specific or only talk about how to survive in a relationship.
OP, to expand on what PUA's "show" just look at mass media and how you must be good looking, confident, good body, have money, etc. I think confidence is important because lack of confidence can be a turn off, but so can too much confidence. They do the same with women...they need to be thin, no acne, lots of makeup, big boobs, etc. To me I could care less about most of that....it comes down to and it always should, is that does the person make you happy? Do they make you smile because of who they are, not what they own.
Not for everyone does it come natural to hold eye contact, to flirt by touching, to sometimes act distant, to take initiative, etc. Why should people who are struggling not read material about how to attract girls?
Very well put. In my expanding social circle I always get introduced to new male wing-men and need to teach the above along with discouraging their desire to get hammered.
OP, to expand on what PUA's "show" just look at mass media and how you must be good looking, confident, good body, have money, etc. I think confidence is important because lack of confidence can be a turn off, but so can too much confidence. They do the same with women...they need to be thin, no acne, lots of makeup, big boobs, etc. To me I could care less about most of that....it comes down to and it always should, is that does the person make you happy? Do they make you smile because of who they are, not what they own.
The keyword in PU is "disingenuous"...Yet as you point out, wake up in the morning next to a girl and marvel at her smudged makeup which reveals acne scars, her pushup bra on the floor revealing her saggy boobs and cellulite covered butt.
That's when you tap her in the middle of the back and say "it's seven A.M., don't you need to feed your cat/dog?"
And here is the PUA bashing from people who have never had a need for it, never really attempted it or did it wrong. Yes, average people get girls. That's because for a lot of people these skills come natural.
Dating requires some skills. Without those skills, she is likely to get bored, and she will break off or always end in the friends zone. Not for everyone does it come natural to hold eye contact, to flirt by touching, to sometimes act distant, to take initiative, etc. Why should people who are struggling not read material about how to attract girls?
PUA is the only source who give concrete information about what to do. Most other dating advice are either very non-specific or only talk about how to survive in a relationship.
PUA supporters always try to make it sound innocent, like it's just about learning social skills & confidence. Not buying it.
The bolded is the tip of the iceberg on a mentality that promotes deceiving, manipulating & degrading people to reach some end goal that merely boosts your ego. It's very ugly under the thin veneer of "helping men learn to date".
PUA is not the only source to learn social skills & dating norms. There are tons of resources out there. Many which are specifically meant for improving self-esteem will probably help more, because it will get at the root of your problem. Instead of faking confidence & self-value, you may simply actually possess it.
PUA is not the only source to learn social skills & dating norms. There are tons of resources out there. Many which are specifically meant for improving self-esteem will probably help more, because it will get at the root of your problem. Instead of faking confidence & self-value, you may simply actually possess it.
That's the thing. If these guys are so terrible with women, they're probably socially awkward in general. They'd probably benefit more from joining something like Toastmasters or reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" that would give them better all-around social skills rather than shelling out good money for seminars and watching endless amateurish YouTube videos.
PUA supporters always try to make it sound innocent, like it's just about learning social skills & confidence. Not buying it.
The bolded is the tip of the iceberg on a mentality that promotes deceiving, manipulating & degrading people to reach some end goal that merely boosts your ego. It's very ugly under the thin veneer of "helping men learn to date".
But it is also the reality. So if you think the bolded statement is deceiving, manipulating and degrading, then why not complain about most girls who get affected by it. If you always show interest, then girls are not going to be interested in you. Thats because girls like a challenge, and a guy that is 100% into them is not a challenge. The bolded statement is true for women as well, hence many women's dating books say exactly the same.
For some people this come natural. So why can't people who are not good with women copy what other men does naturally. Why is it okay to do it naturally, but if you do it on purpose then it is deceiving and bad.
Quote:
PUA is not the only source to learn social skills & dating norms. There are tons of resources out there. Many which are specifically meant for improving self-esteem will probably help more, because it will get at the root of your problem. Instead of faking confidence & self-value, you may simply actually possess it.
Acually, no it isn't. I know, because I have been looking for it. If you search on google, apart from the PUA stuff you will mostly get stuff about relationships or sources which is not detailed enough such as askmen.
Also you are deluded if you think improving self-esteem is the best way of getting dates. Dating requires skills that for some people come naturally and for others does not. Confidence can help, but is not a magical bullet.
That's the thing. If these guys are so terrible with women, they're probably socially awkward in general. They'd probably benefit more from joining something like Toastmasters or reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" that would give them better all-around social skills rather than shelling out good money for seminars and watching endless amateurish YouTube videos.
Most people do not spend a dime on the material. At best they buy a book. Yes, those seminars are a waste of money, but only about 1000 people go to those seminars each year. Houndreds of million of men had read some PUA theory.
And I don't agree. There is nothing that can give more confidence to a sex-starved man than to have sex. That will boost their motivation to go out and meet new people. Trying to learn social skills before dating skills leads to much longer waiting period
And here is the PUA bashing from people who have never had a need for it, never really attempted it or did it wrong. Yes, average people get girls. That's because for a lot of people these skills come natural.
Dating requires some skills. Without those skills, she is likely to get bored, and she will break off or always end in the friends zone. Not for everyone does it come natural to hold eye contact, to flirt by touching, to sometimes act distant, to take initiative, etc. Why should people who are struggling not read material about how to attract girls?
PUA is the only source who give concrete information about what to do. Most other dating advice are either very non-specific or only talk about how to survive in a relationship.
I agree with this guy. Pua worth something. I do not see what is wrong with US women too. Yes most look like mixed dogs, thanks to US history, but some, rather a lot of them, are first class in my book. And many are very friendly. Btw this forum is form of PUA.
Mod comment: Just to clarify - tipitop is not saying American women are ugly dogs. He is simply pointing out that because of the mixture of races and nationalities in U.S. history American women no long reflect the appearance of their ancestors.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 07-12-2013 at 09:44 AM..
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