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Marriage is a momentous decision, with a great deal at stake. As such, it could be absolutely wonderful, or woefully horrendous. There's no set formula. What is however happening in our modern society is the gradual attenuation of formal rites of passage. Marriage is no longer regarded as passage into adulthood, except perhaps in religiously-conservative subcultures. Marriage is no longer an imperative for getting along in one's life, and continuation of one's marriage is no longer an imperative for maintaining face. Thus there's less impetus for getting married, or for staying married.
Also, the bet made in post #46 is ill-advised….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110
And yet you are doing OLD instead of traveling the seven seas fending off the nubile young gold-diggers you entertain on your yacht.
And I'll venture with a speculative bet of my own: that there's a considerable number of men on ocean-capable yachts who would be thrilled to entertain a gold-digger, but who are unable to entice a woman to get on-board, unless she's a customs-agent or a uniformed crew member.
There will always be those who think marriage is just a piece of paper and there will always be those with that piece of paper who know how much more it really is
It is both. You word this above like you think the latter group are in on something the former group have simply missed.
It is subjective. It _is just_ a piece of paper really. But it can be "more" to those who have it if they subjectively deem it to be so. It comes down to what it means to _them_ and there is no secret meaning or "more" that somehow your first group are missing out on.
I wonder if women are reluctant to get married because we simply do not need them for anything basically.
We make our own paychecks,can sexually satisfy ourselves,and can just get a dog or cat if we get maternal urges.
Certainly there's a substantial cohort (of either gender) subscribing to this view. Our atomized and fragmented society simultaneously makes it easier to be single, and simultaneously makes it more difficult to marry well. After having become self-conditioned to the single life, it become habitual, and there's impetus to change. A romantic partner - whether in marriage, or in informal relationship - becomes a peripheral appendage rather than a fundamental need. But is this genuinely true? Or must we assiduously work to convince ourselves of the truth of our persuasions?
Last edited by ohio_peasant; 09-24-2014 at 08:03 AM..
I wonder if women are reluctant to get married because we simply do not need them for anything basically.
We make our own paychecks,can sexually satisfy ourselves,and can just get a dog or cat if we get maternal urges.
Finally a woman comes in here and gives it straight (I should take a picture so I can remember this rare moment.)
Men are mostly the same idiots they've always been. It's really women who's tastes and habits have changed and account for most of the dropping marriage rates. They simply feel less pressure to do so because society tolerates them living like male bachelors until all their eggs dry up, if that's what they wanna do. They figure "someday", until someday leaves them 35+ and too set in their ways by then to ever make it work with anybody. That ship sailed.
The other (much smaller) piece of the equation is men. Some of the smarter ones have started to realize what a bad deal it is for men and have actively chosen to avoid it. And in fact the more of an "eligible" bachelor you are, the more sense it makes to avoid it. These guys are still in the vast minority of men though.
It's just a harder sell on both side the aisle, partly due to a very real cultural shift (women), partly due to antiquated and putative laws that govern marriage that are no longer in step with the times, and partly because it's ugly capitalism at it's finest, preying on people who are too dumb to stop themselves from wasting tens of thousands of dollars on some big fat wedding.
I'm not a young guy 2mares. Any disciplined never married STEM professional is going to collect assets pretty quickly if they aren't debt-loaded. That is true for other professions also and there are some professions that kill STEM for early-career salaries.
I got out of school (bachelors and first masters) with no appreciable debt.
Anyways time for bed here...
And wouldn't it stand to reason that a person in your financial situation be attracted to and choose a similar person. A person that has the same level of education, similar goals, similar discipline, similar income level and assets/debt. And I do think that is the norm. That is why it is frustrating to listen to the continual complaining of men who believe and perpetuate the fears that only men lose and suffer financially in divorce. If your mate is in the same boat as you are then their risk is equal in a divorce.
If a person that is ambitious, financially savvy and has accumulated assets chooses to marry someone that is lazy, has nothing and no potential to achieve well that is on them and IMO no reflection on marriage per se.
Personally I still see a good amount of marriage among those with higher education. I see more co-habitation among those without extended education. Most younger singles I know are searching for something. Most old farts like myself who have been divorced or widowed seem happy being single with the occasional companionship and humpalumpadingdong.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
Personally I still see a good amount of marriage among those with higher education. I see more co-habitation among those without extended education. Most younger singles I know are searching for something. Most old farts like myself who have been divorced or widowed seem happy being single with the occasional companionship and humpalumpadingdong.
I see the same thing. Though, I do at times see situations where like I could be in (I'm not now) where I got through undergrad with little debt (now paid off) and grad school without any debt (in state student at a flagship U), but often date women that while they earn more, they have large amounts of student loan debt from going to rather expensive private schools. The woman I'm seeing now has just into six figures of student loan debt. I could see that giving people pause.
Fair enough, but choosing to marry someone might be one of the most important life choices you may ever make. I see nothing wrong with looking at all angles of such a choice. There is a difference between being ruled by fear, and being prudent and really thinking things over.
My first marriage, I was young, went into it with the seashells and balloons, "love will conquer all", fearless, idealistic mind set; maybe that's how you should go into marriage, IDK, but we ended up divorcing, and all I worked for in those 10 years was pretty much gone. I know it's not always good to let money rule you, and be your only love, but there's nothing wrong with covering your ass-ets either.
Mod cut....just be plain about it. probably left the relationship materially better than she came into it and left you dumped on your head with a huge financial mess to clean up and recover from. Just tell me you learned your lesson at least.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 09-24-2014 at 10:00 AM..
Reason: Inappropriate language.
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