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In her case, I think she came to understand that I truly meant it because I did care. Even then it still bothered her. I finally stopped asking out of respect for her. Part of the problem in our relationship is she had me typecast and pigeonholed as someone I'm not. It's very hard to break out of that kind of a situation. I think there was a part of her that didn't like how I acquiesced to her requests, but then she would get upset when I wouldn't. Me thinks that isn't so uncommon.
Dude! Toxic! Not relationship material. Gack! You can't be with someone who doesn't see you and appreciate you for who you are. A relationship like that shouldn't have lasted as long as it did. Even a few months is too long.
My regret in this situation is that I lost a friend. Otherwise, my conscience is well over 90.00% clear on this one.
OP, the reality is that a "friend" who doesn't see you for who you are, and understand you, and accept you, isn't a true friend. It sounds like a superficial friendship, due to that issue. There was no depth. How did you get mixed up with this, to this extent? Let me guess; she was hot?
Gkelly, you raised a good point. In my case, I was being sincere and when friends or not reply "not good" I try to make the time to listen and help.
Ruth4Truth, you are living up to your handle! You sure got me and you're right. I shouldn't count it as a lost friend. I should breathe a sigh of relief. She would constantly badger the way I practice Judaism. She came off like this high and mighty Convert. Ironically, she didn't even have an Orthodox Conversion and our Rabbi at the time did not even recognize her as Jewish. Okay, I have to confess I'm not the best Jew by any means. I forget to wrap tefillin, and sometimes I forget to say a blessing over bread. My Hebrew needs a tremendous amount of work. What can I say? I grew up secular. While we were together I encouraged her nascent Jewishness. I even loaned her my tefillin which is a taboo subject in Frum circles. More liberal Jews don't care if women wear it. I don't. It was like she was jealous because I was born this way. For her, it's a choice and for me it's an obligation unless I want to end up like Woody Allen or Jerry Seinfeld.
How did I get mixed up? After Friday prayers and Kiddush, we would walk out of Synagogue together and talk for hours. Ditto, after Saturday services. There isn't a whole lot to do on the Jewish Sabbath when you're observant. Later we starting holding Kiddush at my house after she got disinvited by our Rabbi because of her pro-Palestinian & pro-Islamic worldview. Which I contend is her right, but I wouldn't be blasting that stuff on Facebook when you live in a small tightly knit community.
Do understand we were "together" before this incident. To what extent did we get together? Wow, well we didn't go all of the way if that helps you. There were times when we didn't touch and followed the laws of Negiah. There were times when we did not observe those rules. This was a source of debate. I later found out from her that she had a bad experience with a much older man that took advantage of her while was she 17 thus violating the laws of that country. They did not go all of the way yet she kept on going back to him and didn't know why. The fellow that took advantage of her could have gotten into big trouble. With me she was 20 when I met her. Once said: "ah, touch is not so creepy." She also said: "why do people work?" in response to touch feeling good. If you missed it in a previous post on this thread I mentioned how she never met her father. She claims to be at peace with that subject, but I have my doubts. I suspect her quest to be Jewish is a quest to find a consistent father figure that won't abandon her. Yes, she is hot too! : ) But I really fell for her more because of her brain and not the other parts of her which I unashamedly enjoyed.
Last edited by HarryRSpooner; 03-26-2015 at 05:53 PM..
Gkelly, you raised a good point. In my case, I was being sincere and when friends or not reply "not good" I try to make the time to listen and help.
Ruth4Truth, you are living up to your handle! You sure got me and you're right. I shouldn't count it as a lost friend. I should breathe a sigh of relief. She would constantly badger the way I practice Judaism. She came off like this high and mighty Convert. Ironically, she didn't even have an Orthodox Conversion and our Rabbi at the time did not even recognize her as Jewish. Okay, I have to confess I'm not the best Jew by any means. I forget to wrap tefillin, and sometimes I forget to say a blessing over bread. My Hebrew needs a tremendous amount of work. What can I say? I grew up secular. While we were together I encouraged her nascent Jewishness. I even loaned her my tefillin which is a taboo subject in Frum circles. More liberal Jews don't care if women wear it. I don't. It was like she was jealous because I was born this way. For her, it's a choice and for me it's an obligation unless I want to end up like Woody Allen or Jerry Seinfeld.
Hilarious!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryRSpooner;
How did I get mixed up? After Friday prayers and Kiddush, we would walk out of Synagogue together and talk for hours. Ditto, after Saturday services. There isn't a whole lot to do on the Jewish Sabbath when you're observant. Later we starting holding Kiddush at my house after she got disinvited by our Rabbi because of her pro-Palestinian & pro-Islamic worldview. Which I contend is her right, but I wouldn't be blasting that stuff on Facebook when you live in a small tightly knit community.
Do understand we were "together" before this incident. To what extent did we get together? Wow, well we didn't go all of the way if that helps you. There were times when we didn't touch and followed the laws of Negiah. There were times when we did not observe those rules. This was a source of debate. I later found out from her that she had a bad experience with a much older man that took advantage of her while was she 17 thus violating the laws of that country. They did not go all of the way yet she kept on going back to him and didn't know why. The fellow that took advantage of her could have gotten into big trouble. With me she was 20 when I met her. Once said: "ah, touch is not so creepy." She also said: "why do people work?" in response to touch feeling good. If you missed it in a previous post on this thread I mentioned how she never met her father. She claims to be at peace with that subject, but I have my doubts. I suspect her quest to be Jewish is a quest to find a consistent father figure that won't abandon her. Yes, she is hot too! : ) But I really fell for her more because of her brain and not the other parts of her which I unashamedly enjoyed.
OK, you just redeemed yourself. And I get that at first there was what sounds like a powerful spiritual connection, or strong religious connections of a sort. So in that way, she was a friend you could talk to about things that were important to you. But over time, it's become clear it wasn't a good match in other ways. And good for you for not getting too deeply involved. This way, it's easier to break up and stay relatively rational about it.
You're right I have to chalk it up to a learning experience. You know Ruth was a Convert to Judaism herself. It was more like spiritual commonality or empathy than a connection. Where we lived at the time there aren't so many Jews. It takes a lot of guts to Convert and I saluted her for it without being patronizing. I think she respected me for it. Otherwise, she wasn't very good at respecting me. I think she was at times anti-social, shy, and most of all young.
Ruth, what I miss most about her is the talking and not the touching. Sure it was great, I won't deny it. Although, sometimes I left like it was overrated and wanted to go back to not touching. I'm sure she felt the same way at times. But as you mentioned previously I shouldn't feel like it was a loss. She fundamentally didn't respect me and I think she thought she was better than me. Even if true, it isn't a nice thing to project. There were periodic points when she was very deferential to me and even dare I say it - in awe.
I really didn't even know how absolutely beautiful she was until we got close. Part of the reason for this is because she dressed extremely modestly in keeping with Observant Torah Judaism. No tight jeans. No tube tops. None of it. Beauty and brains. Not a bad combination. I just don't know what she saw in me. My guess is - I was a distraction or mildly entertaining and she enjoyed my supportive nature. But she wanted to be the "brains" and felt threatened when I flexed my intellectual muscle. She is definitely the type that has to be the smartest person in the room. I'd rather be the dumbest one in the room so I can learn.
My ex-fiance even before she dumped me would chastise me for asking her "how are you?" She claimed it was an insincere formality or there is no way of adequately answering the question and it's a waste of time. Just get right to the point and talk. She also chided me for being too happy and optimistic. It would annoy her. She later conceded that she didn't think I was being fake or patronizing, but it still bothered her. This is a girl of supreme intellect. She is taller than me and not from the U.S.A. Did I dodge a bullet? I've never encountered anyone like her before - have you ever been reprimanded by someone you were in a relationship with for asking "how are you?" My hunch is most folks have been taken to the woodshed for NOT asking that question.
She would also seldom if ever wish me a Good Shabbos even when I would wish her one. It really hurt my feelings which are at times a hard thing to do! When I asked her about it - she said something to the effect "if I tell you it would make me look bad." I really don't want to bash my ex at all, I'm more interested in understanding why.
Your ex-fiancee is a miserable person who looks askance at the simplest of pleasantries. Yet these are the gestures that make conversation easier between others.
Trust me, you dodged a major bullet. Otherwise, you would have had a lifetime of having every single word parsed by her. Which means you would have snapped and would likely be staring eventually at life in prison.
Thank you cpg35223, you know I think during one of our long drawn out disagreements, she sarcastically, but probably revealingly said "you think I'm a miserable person." Cpg3522e were you there? : )
If I remember right, I was upset at her because she had this thing about not giving accolades for superficial things like food or the weather. I asked her "okay, so what exactly do you like? You seem to not really like much other than obsessing over languages and religion." Meanwhile, as it turns out she does like good food - this came out later in our relation and after she dumped me, she complained about the weather in her new adopted country. Go figure!
Whoa, yeah nearly every single one of my words was parsed by her. There were some words which she prohibited me from using and some words she prohibited us from using. Seriously, were you there?
Reflecting on some previous comments. I'm left with the lesson of: don't fall for a potentially brilliant mind - you gotta make sure you get along and mesh well. The ability to get through disagreements and to accentuate the positive is imperative. If she saw this post she would cackle gleefully that I'm still thinking about this relation or devoting any time to it. I'm sure she would derive some pleasure from it. She is one of the most guarded individuals I've ever met and she seldom ever left her "hair down." There were a few rare moments, but those were few and far between. However, I'm left with a few nagging questions:
1.) What did she see in me?
2.) What was our relation about?
3.) Why the lack of respect?
4.) I wonder what will become of her.
Last edited by HarryRSpooner; 03-27-2015 at 07:25 AM..
Reflecting on some previous comments. I'm left with the lesson of: don't fall for a potentially brilliant mind - you gotta make sure you get along and mesh well. The ability to get through disagreements and to accentuate the positive is imperative. If she saw this post she would cackle gleefully that I'm still thinking about this relation or devoting any time to it. I'm sure she would derive some pleasure from it. She is one of the most guarded individuals I've ever met and she seldom ever left her "hair down." There were a few rare moments, but those were few and far between. However, I'm left with a few nagging questions:
1.) What did she see in me?
2.) What was our relation about?
3.) Why the lack of respect?
4.) I wonder what will become of her.
Let me just say what every one else is probably thinking.
Grow up. Get a life. Move on.
Why keep picking at a festering wound? This one's a lost cause.
My ex-fiance even before she dumped me would chastise me for asking her "how are you?" She claimed it was an insincere formality or there is no way of adequately answering the question and it's a waste of time. Just get right to the point and talk. She also chided me for being too happy and optimistic. It would annoy her. She later conceded that she didn't think I was being fake or patronizing, but it still bothered her. This is a girl of supreme intellect. She is taller than me and not from the U.S.A. Did I dodge a bullet? I've never encountered anyone like her before - have you ever been reprimanded by someone you were in a relationship with for asking "how are you?" My hunch is most folks have been taken to the woodshed for NOT asking that question.
She would also seldom if ever wish me a Good Shabbos even when I would wish her one. It really hurt my feelings which are at times a hard thing to do! When I asked her about it - she said something to the effect "if I tell you it would make me look bad." I really don't want to bash my ex at all, I'm more interested in understanding why.
Dodged bullet for sure. It sounds like she has some issues or is from a culture that is vastly different (not necessarily bad).
You two were just not a match. You'll find someone who is more compatible.
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You can't be with someone who doesn't see you and appreciate you for who you are. A relationship like that shouldn't have lasted as long as it did. Even a few months is too long.
And I get that at first there was what sounds like a powerful spiritual connection, or strong religious connections of a sort. So in that way, she was a friend you could talk to about things that were important to you. But over time, it's become clear it wasn't a good match in other ways. And good for you for not getting too deeply involved. This way, it's easier to break up and stay relatively rational about it.
