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Yup. So what? There are LGTB cases where religious establishments, organizations, churches, publishers, etc. have been sued simply because they don't support homosexuality. If religious people want to carry on with their beliefs, let them be. If LGTB wants to carry on with theirs, let them be. Forcing people to believe in their religion is as bad as LGTB forcing people to applaud them or they'll be judged harshly by the LGTB community and their supporters.
I think we were talking about this not many posts ago. See, LGTB can be seen insulting and pointing fingers at anybody who dares themselves to not make them feel special but what happens when someone comes up and tells them they are a bunch of perverted dirty against-nature ass munchers? All of a sudden whoever said that is seen as the villain. Come on.
If you are against people who think different than you then you are "peoplewhothinkdifferentlyphobic."
LOL, are you for real??
making them feel special??? I think LGBT people mostly want to have THE SAME RIGHTS as heterosexual people. Thats not MAKING THEM FEEL SPECIAL, but quite the opposite, actually: they want to have the same rights as everyone else.
So, LGTB people have to endure religious people to call them perverted and to try to go AGAINST their rights (as in, the right to get married or adopt) just out of respect?
Go back and read how I have said repeatedly that respect should go both ways.
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Im heterosexual, if there were a group of people that came to me and say "hey, since you are heterosexual, therefore perverted, i say you CANT get married or adopt kids" i would CERTAINLY call them "bigots, hateful, ignorant". Because thats NOT respect, they are going against my rights. If they go against my rights, i can call them whatever i want.
And if you were religious and a bunch of people came up to your church, establishment, or publisher and took you to court for practicing your religion peacefully and complaining because you didn't make them feel special, how would you feel? It would be like someone going into a vegetarian activity and complaining because they don't let that person eat meat. We would tell that person "Leave vegetarians alone and create your own special group. Stop trying to make people accommodate to every single desire of yours and move on."
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Originally Posted by SophieLL
making them feel special??? I think LGBT people mostly want to have THE SAME RIGHTS as heterosexual people.
LGTB already have the same rights and have gone as far as even suing religious establishments/organizations/publishers/etc. It's not only rights that they want but they seem to want to take others' rights as well. Let religions practice their faiths peacefully. Going as far as suing them doesn't sound like they want the same rights, they want to take rights of others away too. Live and let live.
In any case, ALL people have the same rights as you and me. You do get that, right? You, me, my gay neighbour, my religious aunt: we all have the same rights.
The difference is that you, me and my religious aunt had this rights since we were born, while gay people did not, and they are just conquering their rights in some parts of the world, but their rights arent conquered in most parts. Thats the difference between you, me, my aunt, and they gay people. Gay people have been vilified and unable to ejercitate their rights in most places, since they were born.
You do understand theres a difference there, right?
You dont feel respect should go both ways. You feel only the bigots deserve respect. You feel that someone telling other weak group they CANT do what you can, deserve respect and cant be questioned. Thats the same as saying that weak group they DONT deserve respect. Thats a fallacy, you see how that works?
I find it weird that you cant see how contradictory your own statements are.
Lets say you are a woman and your height is 5 10 (i have no idea your gender or height, this in a example) and i form a group of people (lets call this group: ANTITALLIST) who are against women taller than 5 9, and we decide that you CANT get married or adopt. According to YOUR position, you wouldnt even be able to complain, cause you will be questioning ANTITALLISTS for practicing their religion peacefully. LOL. See how your logic works? It is not a logic at all.
Just admit you hate gay people, its easier than applying this ridiculous logic that even my 2 year old nephew could debunk.
In any case, ALL people have the same rights as you and me. You do get that, right? You, me, my gay neighbour, my religious aunt: we all have the same rights
The difference is that you, me and my religious aunt had this rights since we were born
And now LGTB is trying to take those rights away. What do you think of LGTB suing religious establishments/churches/publishers/organizations? In your country gays have gone quite far not only with the marrying issue but also as far as trying to take others’ rights away. Why not leave religions in peace? You might say religions attack your rights to be gay/lesbian. Nope. Not all religions do that. They may believe homosexuality is a sin and will talk about it if asked. Heck, there are cases of homosexuals turning to religion and now lead happy lives married to someone of the opposite sex and even participating with X religion and those who want to turn their lives away from that lifestyle. But there are also those who will get in your face and just behave badly. Guess what, it happens with LGTB as well. You have those out there who are totally fine with religions regardless of them seeing homosexuality as a sin. What do they do? They simply stay away from it and respect those who think differently as it will not change how they decided to live. Then you have those LGTB who get in other people’s faces and insult them, judge them, etc. simply because they don’t root for their lifestyle.
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while gay people did not, and they are just conquering their rights in some parts of the world, but their rights arent conquered in most parts. Thats the difference between you, me, my aunt, and they gay people. Gay people have been vilified and unable to ejercitate their rights in most places, since they were born
Same can be said of many other things the USA saw as “wrong” and slowly has accepted them. Alcohol comes to mind. It used to be seen pretty much as the liquid form of evil. Back in the day you could tell someone that one day businesses would focus on serving nothing but alcoholic beverages (bars) and you would be seen as crazy. Now alcohol can be found even in convenience stores or gas stations. Not so long ago it was the same with LGTB and now look how far they have gone. Hey, it is being said that other groups of preferences/orientations also want their voices to be heard. I guess an adult with her/his teenage lover will be next? Hey, its all about celebrating diversity, being open minded, tolerating differences, letting love win, etc. so I guess you wouldn’t have a problem supporting that, right?
You dont feel respect should go both ways. You feel only the bigots deserve respect
Nope. Bigots deserve respect too. That is why I haven’t insulted you the same way you have insulted me.
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Lets say you are a woman and your height is 5 10 (i have no idea your gender or height, this in a example) and i form a group of people (lets call this group: ANTITALLIST) who are against women taller than 5 9, and we decide that you CANT get married or adopt. According to YOUR position, you wouldnt even be able to complain, cause you will be questioning ANTITALLISTS for practicing their religion peacefully. LOL. See how your logic works? It is not a logic at all.
I have not said anything yet about not adopting. I support the idea that its better for a child to grow with both father and mother figure but I have not brought this to this debate. If a gay couple, adult and teenage lover couple, person and his pet couple, etc. want to adopt a child, well, they can do what they want in a country where they get support to do that. Like I said, live and let live. Whatever preference/orientation wants to adopt, well, go for it. But what right does it give them to go and attack religions and try to change them even if they don’t get in their way?
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Just admit you hate gay people, its easier than applying this ridiculous logic that even my 2 year old nephew could debunk.
Just admit you hate religious people. If I hated gay people I wouldn’t work with one and even go out to eat. I also don’t like people who cheat on their spouse for example, yet, regardless of me not liking that lifestyle I still respect them as people and let them live as they chose. See, that’s the differences with LGTB. They want to be special by trying to change religion to accommodate them. Now that sounds pretty hateful, doesn’t it?
What do you think of LGTB suing religious organizations/establishments/churches/publishers?
And now LGTB is trying to take those rights away. What do you think of LGTB suing religious establishments/churches/publishers/organizations? In your country gays have gone quite far not only with the marrying issue but also as far as trying to take others’ rights away. Why not leave religions in peace? You might say religions attack your rights to be gay/lesbian. Nope. Not all religions do that. They may believe homosexuality is a sin and will talk about it if asked. Heck, there are cases of homosexuals turning to religion and now lead happy lives married to someone of the opposite sex and even participating with X religion and those who want to turn their lives away from that lifestyle. But there are also those who will get in your face and just behave badly. Guess what, it happens with LGTB as well. You have those out there who are totally fine with religions regardless of them seeing homosexuality as a sin. What do they do? They simply stay away from it and respect those who think differently as it will not change how they decided to live. Then you have those LGTB who get in other people’s faces and insult them, judge them, etc. simply because they don’t root for their lifestyle.
Same can be said of many other things the USA saw as “wrong” and slowly has accepted them. Alcohol comes to mind. It used to be seen pretty much as the liquid form of evil. Back in the day you could tell someone that one day businesses would focus on serving nothing but alcoholic beverages (bars) and you would be seen as crazy. Now alcohol can be found even in convenience stores or gas stations. Not so long ago it was the same with LGTB and now look how far they have gone. Hey, it is being said that other groups of preferences/orientations also want their voices to be heard. I guess an adult with her/his teenage lover will be next? Hey, its all about celebrating diversity, being open minded, tolerating differences, letting love win, etc. so I guess you wouldn’t have a problem supporting that, right?
What churches and religious organizations are being sued by the LGB community?
Off the top of my head in the last few years that where big enough to hit the mainstream..
A few hospitality businesses for refusing to serve or offer services to customers and employees based on their fundamental beliefs vs their legal obligation.
A few hospitality businesses for refusing to serve or offer services based in their fundimentals
The cake shop was not sued...
They were fined by the state because they:
1. failed to provide a public accommodation to a protected class
- gays are a protected class, by law, in the state of Oregon, where this happened
2. they sell cakes to the public. They refused to sell a cake to an individual based solely on their sexual orientation, which is illegal in the state of Oregon
3. they posted the gay couple's personal info including name, address and phone number on facebook, causing the couple to get death threats, caused mental anguish, etc
There is a LOT more to this story than most people lead on. Read up on it unless you want to be called out for being ignorant
If you are referencing another case, do tell... i'm sure there are similar circumstances
No one is being persecuted for their religious beliefs
But you cannot provide a public accommodation and then discriminate, that's illegal...
So, LGTB people have to endure religious people to call them perverted and to try to go AGAINST their rights (as in, the right to get married or adopt) just out of respect???
Im heterosexual, if there were a group of people that came to me and say "hey, since you are heterosexual, therefore perverted, i say you CANT get married or adopt kids" i would CERTAINLY call them "bigots, hateful, ignorant". Because thats NOT respect, they are going against my rights. If they go against my rights, i can call them whatever i want.
Pretty simple logic here, even my 2 year old nephew could get this.
Spot on.
There is supporting someone's lifestyle by accepting people as they are and working with them to ensure they have the same rights as everyone else.
There is feeling like one doesn't have a dog in this hunt, so one doesn't care one way or the other, but would essentially feel that rights are rights, and that rights should not be given or denied to people based on gender, creed, ethnicity, or sexuality. "Not for me, but not going to say other people can't have it, either."
And then there are bigots. If someone says they don't support marriage among homosexuals, then that person is essentially in this group because they are saying that some people, because of their sexuality, should not have the same rights as everyone else. That is discrimination, and discrimination is the manifestation of nothing less than bigotry.
Look, people, you either believe everyone should have civil rights, or you don't--and if you don't, you're a bigot. It's really that simple. If the word offends you, too bad. Don't be offensive in your arrogance and belief that your way should be the only way, and don't seek to deny others the same rights you have because you, in all of your blistering self-importance, think you should have some kind of power of approval over someone else's relationships and marriage (indeed, believe that anyone gives a rat's arse whether you approve of their sexuality or not in the first place), you won't be considered a bigot. No one is forcing you to be a bigot. It's something you can control. It's a choice.
Last edited by Lilac110; 07-15-2015 at 01:53 PM..
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