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If I were to ask a woman to sign a prenup and she refused I would end it right there. I have a right to protect myself and the person who refuses to sign it could be up to no good.
Like I said, I would sign a prenup with my boyfriend if it came to that. I'm not really marriage focused anyway, so I don't plan on marriage in the future anyway.
It's not because I think we'd end up in divorce though. It's because I can empathize with him. He's been divorced once before and it was costly. He's built up a business now and I can see where history would bother his peace of mind.
Besides, he has two children from his marriage. A prenup can serve to protect their inheritance. Sure that can be done with a will too, but the prenup would strengthen things since a will can be contested. The two together are stronger than just one document.
A prenup and whether one will stand for it really depends on the individuals and the reasoning behind the desire. There is a big difference between a paranoid and untrusting man who really has nothing to protect but thinks all women are gold diggers and are after him and a man who had been through divorce and has children or even a business and his workers in the business to protect. One is acting out of parania and bitterness and the other out of caution and maybe even the advice of a business partner or financial advisor. In the later case it's not about distrust but about planning.
Wealthy people are inclined to protect their wealth. Period. I don't see a problem, unless you are marrying a person for their money.
Yeah, I don't see the issue either. Perhaps those people who wouldn't sign do not have anything to protect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
Most people go into a marriage all starry eyed and knowing it's going to be 'happily ever after' Divorce statistics prove otherwise. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
A pre-nup is also saying "you can trust me"
Exactly. 50% of all marriages end in divorce, I think the stats say. I'm sure all of them thought it was forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasperJade
That's just it. The minute he asked, it would destroy my confidence that the marriage would work out, for reasons I've already explained. I can't imagine anyone ever asking that of me, TBH. I just don't get involved with people who think like that.
I don't get this. Divorce is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a person. And it brings out the ugly side of human beings. People DO change during a divorce. And it's not because someone's 'picker' is broken (seriously???). It's because trauma does horrible things to people and they act out in ways that surprise even them.
Or are you saying that trauma does not change a person's behavior?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mochamajesty
Exactly. 50% of all marriages end in divorce, I think the stats say. I'm sure all of them thought it was forever.
No, its never been 50%. Never been that high. That's a long perpetuated myth. It's lower now than it has been in decades. The high was in the early 80s and it still didn't hit 50% of all marriages (and first marriages are the real key).
If I were to ask a woman to sign a prenup and she refused I would end it right there. I have a right to protect myself and the person who refuses to sign it could be up to no good.
Do you always date people you feel the need to protect yourself from? If you feel the need to protect yourself from them, why would you marry them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mochamajesty
I don't get this. Divorce is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a person. And it brings out the ugly side of human beings. People DO change during a divorce. And it's not because someone's 'picker' is broken (seriously???). It's because trauma does horrible things to people and they act out in ways that surprise even them.
Or are you saying that trauma does not change a person's behavior?
First, no, not every divorce is traumatic. A divorce, like a marriage, is only as smooth as the two people in it. Mine was not traumatic. I know others whose divorces were not traumatic. Even though there is of course pain,anger, grief, and all the usual emotions, they managed to maintain their dignity through it, choose what to stand firm on and what not to, and, above all else, not make it ugly for the sake of their children--another hallmark of an adult.
Second, I don't think divorce changes people. I think it brings out who they already are or are inclined to be. It's like when someone in the family dies. There are people who are willing to divide the estate according to need or appreciation of another's sentiment and there are people who see it as an opportunity for a money-grab or to be spiteful by claiming something that really shouldn't go to them. Pre-nups are like wills and divorce procedures are like probate: There can be a piece of paper, but in the end, if people are going to be nasty and fight, they're going to be nasty and fight, because they're the kind of people who get nasty and fight when bad things happen.
Then, if you look at other areas of their lives, you'll see that it's really no surprise that they got nasty and fought. I can see it right here: The people on this thread who are shrieking angrily or getting defensive about this are people who take belligerent tones on other threads here and in other subforums that have nothing to do with relationships. They fight with everyone. That's who they are and what they do, but of course, they're loving angels to their spouses--unless and until they divorce, in which case you can believe that they are going to be nasty then, too because past behavior predicts future performance.
And therein lies the rub. The time to protect yourself is in courtship--by observation. How does this person handle conflict with other people? How do they fight with you? Do they have a mean streak? Do they get defensive when you bring up an issue? How are they at compromising? How are they in other stressful situations? Indeed, how do they behave when a member of their family dies? If you have a good head on your shoulders and can assess someone objectively despite your love for the person, you're not going to pick someone who will be an ahole in either marriage or divorce. Their behavior would turn you off long before you got engaged. But ya know, people tend to live in denial of red flags--something I think we can all agree on given the nature of so very many threads on this forum.
Do you always date people you feel the need to protect yourself from? If you feel the need to protect yourself from them, why would you marry them?
First, no, not every divorce is traumatic. A divorce, like a marriage, is only as smooth as the two people in it. Mine was not traumatic. I know others whose divorces were not traumatic. Even though there is of course pain,anger, grief, and all the usual emotions, they managed to maintain their dignity through it, choose what to stand firm on and what not to, and, above all else, not make it ugly for the sake of their children--another hallmark of an adult.
Second, I don't think divorce changes people. I think it brings out who they already are or are inclined to be. It's like when someone in the family dies. There are people who are willing to divide the estate according to need or appreciation of another's sentiment and there are people who see it as an opportunity for a money-grab or to be spiteful by claiming something that really shouldn't go to them. Pre-nups are like wills and divorce procedures are like probate: There can be a piece of paper, but in the end, if people are going to be nasty and fight, they're going to be nasty and fight, because they're the kind of people who get nasty and fight when bad things happen.
Then, if you look at other areas of their lives, you'll see that it's really no surprise that they got nasty and fought. I can see it right here: The people on this thread who are shrieking angrily or getting defensive about this are people who take belligerent tones on other threads here and in other subforums that have nothing to do with relationships. They fight with everyone. That's who they are and what they do, but of course, they're loving angels to their spouses--unless and until they divorce, in which case you can believe that they are going to be nasty then, too because past behavior predicts future performance.
And therein lies the rub. The time to protect yourself is in courtship--by observation. How does this person handle conflict with other people? How do they fight with you? Do they have a mean streak? Do they get defensive when you bring up an issue? How are they at compromising? How are they in other stressful situations? Indeed, how do they behave when a member of their family dies? If you have a good head on your shoulders and can assess someone objectively despite your love for the person, you're not going to pick someone who will be an ahole in either marriage or divorce. Their behavior would turn you off long before you got engaged. But ya know, people tend to live in denial of red flags--something I think we can all agree on given the nature of so very many threads on this forum.
Err...I did not say every divorce was traumatic. I said that divorce CAN be the most traumatic thing to happen to a person.
I truly hope that your world works this way. Good luck!
Err...I did not say every divorce was traumatic. I said that divorce CAN be the most traumatic thing to happen to a person.
I truly hope that your world works this way. Good luck!
Obviously it has and does. Despite my occasional snark on here, I'm not a particularly vindictive person, and I certainly have never and will never stake a claim to something that is not rightfully mine. Past behavior predicts future performance. One of my selling points is that I know how to get divorced without behaving like an animal.
Obviously it has and does. Despite my occasional snark on here, I'm not a particularly vindictive person, and I certainly have never and will never stake a claim to something that is not rightfully mine. Past behavior predicts future performance. One of my selling points is that I know how to get divorced without behaving like an animal.
Its been my experience, that divorce can bring the worst out of most amicable person; there's just too many strong emotions at play when a relationship ends. I also find, love and logic rarely goes hand and hand.
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