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My interest in this thread is the original proposition, Is Love Dead? And I'm just calling BS on the people who hang out here constantly carping about love but pretending that they want no part of it.
Perhaps part of the issue is that some people have learned and internalized that there's one real, true way to do "love".
The longterm, monogamous relationship paradigm.
And when they find out that this sort of relationship is not something that they feel will make them happy, there is a true feeling of "what now?".
Of course there are lots of ways to have relationships, but this is not generally what we (general "we") learn in our society. The longterm, monogamous relationship is the brass ring here. And, to me, that's where the pity part comes in, because a lot of times, when people decide to conduct their relationships in different ways, it's looked upon as "second best", or as some kind of failure. There is an inability for people to say, "good for you for finding what makes you happy", and mean it.
Society doesn't tell you anything of the sort. Just because you observed a couple of schlubs who watch TV night after night, that doesn't mean that boring lives are preordained.
I rest my case!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishigas73
Perhaps part of the issue is that some people have learned and internalized that there's one real, true way to do "love".
The longterm, monogamous relationship paradigm.
And when they find out that this sort of relationship is not something that they feel will make them happy, there is a true feeling of "what now?".
Of course there are lots of ways to have relationships, but this is not generally what we (general "we") learn in our society. The longterm, monogamous relationship is the brass ring here. And, to me, that's where the pity part comes in, because a lot of times, when people decide to conduct their relationships in different ways, it's looked upon as "second best", or as some kind of failure. There is an inability for people to say, "good for you for finding what makes you happy", and mean it.
No truer words were spoken! I'd rep you, but I gotta spread it around first.
Perhaps part of the issue is that some people have learned and internalized that there's one real, true way to do "love".
The longterm, monogamous relationship paradigm.
And when they find out that this sort of relationship is not something that they feel will make them happy, there is a true feeling of "what now?".
Of course there are lots of ways to have relationships, but this is not generally what we (general "we") learn in our society. The longterm, monogamous relationship is the brass ring here. And, to me, that's where the pity part comes in, because a lot of times, when people decide to conduct their relationships in different ways, it's looked upon as "second best", or as some kind of failure. There is an inability for people to say, "good for you for finding what makes you happy", and mean it.
I didn't say that there's one real, true way to do "love." I simply argue that it indeed exists, which is the crux of this thread. It exists in my life, the life of my friends and family. It exists pretty much everywhere I look. You might as well deny the existence of Australia or something.
Yet there are those who argue that it either doesn't exist or that it is highly difficult to achieve for no other reason than they lack the ability to forge a relationship themselves. It's like Aesop's fable about the fox and the grapes. They can't attain it either through terrible choices for the objects of their attraction or because they can't learn from their mistakes.
And so, because of their own inability to achieve a loving and fulfilling relationship, it can't exist. Or only exists in a rarefied state. Which is patently stupid, considering how abundant it is.
In truth, these people are self-defeating. They create an entire set of requirements for their partner in a relationship, from height or cup size to the number on their W2. They have rules on what they will do with this theoretical SO. What movies they are willing to see and which ones they will not. What they can wear. What kinds of friends they can have. When and how they'll have sex. Political and religious leanings. You name it. Whether or not they like cats. Whether or not they have had a previous marriages. Whether or not the SO will be allowed to wear jewelry given to them by a past relationship. Lest you think I exaggerate, all these criteria have been posted, stupid, trivial stuff for the most part that has bupkis to do with a loving, trusting relationship.
With every one of these must-haves in a relationship, these congenitally unhappy people whittle down the number of potential partners a good deal further. Finally they are left with a pool of candidates so tiny that it's statistically impossible to find a match, chiefly because their standards are so demanding and eclectic that almost no one can possibly fulfill them all. Yet if, by some miracle, they did, they themselves wouldn't measure up. Hey, if a woman was a 6'1 drop-dead gorgeous Amazon who was wealthy, spoke five languages, had a great career, and created life and beauty and love everywhere she went, why would she want to be marooned with a bitter, complaining guy?
To be fair, let's divert our attention from men and turn to women. There are women in this forum who have their list of requirements so long that if Jesus Christ Himself asked them for a date, they would turn Him down cold. Why? Because He's a carpenter for a living, is worshipped by his mother, sports a beard, and always has these twelve guys following Him around all the time. Never mind that he heals the sick, raises the dead, and turns water into wine at parties. Then they complain about not being able to find someone.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 03-23-2017 at 09:39 AM..
I didn't say that there's one real, true way to do "love." I simply argue that it indeed exists, which is the point of this thread. It exists in my life, the life of my friends and family. It exists pretty much everywhere I look. You might as well deny the existence of Australia or something.
Yet there are those who argue that it either doesn't exist or that it is highly difficult to achieve for no other reason than they lack the ability to forge one themselves. It's like Aesop's fable about the fox and the grapes. They can't attain it either through terrible choices for the objects of their attraction or because they can't learn from their mistakes.
And so, because of their own inability to achieve a loving and fulfilling relationship, it can't exist. Or only exists in a rarefied state. Which is patently stupid, considering how abundant it is.
When one sees the longterm, monogamous relationship paradigm all of their lives, and hear people constantly saying "I did it, why can't you?", it can become an issue when that person comes to the realization that that particular manifestation of love doesn't work for them.
Why do these people "lack the ability to forge one for themselves"? Could it possibly be that they have had this relationship paradigm drilled into their heads all of their lives, and don't really accept that it's not the "one true way"?
I think that we (general "we") too often fall into the trap of speaking about these sorts of relationships as the "norm" (i.e. "what should be"). While I honestly don't believe that most people mean to send the message, make no mistake that the message is sent.
I know from experience that it can be tough to figure out where one fits, when it's even just a little "off" the norm. So while I won't feed into the incessant pity parties, I also get where it might come from.
When one sees the longterm, monogamous relationship paradigm all of their lives, and hear people constantly saying "I did it, why can't you?", it can become an issue when that person comes to the realization that that particular manifestation of love doesn't work for them.
Why do these people "lack the ability to forge one for themselves"? Could it possibly be that they have had this relationship paradigm drilled into their heads all of their lives, and don't really accept that it's not the "one true way"?
I think that we (general "we") too often fall into the trap of speaking about these sorts of relationships as the "norm" (i.e. "what should be"). While I honestly don't believe that most people mean to send the message, make no mistake that the message is sent.
I know from experience that it can be tough to figure out where one fits, when it's even just a little "off" the norm. So while I won't feed into the incessant pity parties, I also get where it might come from.
Exactly.
Minivandriver, what you are failing to see is that what you perceive as easy/hard and what others perceive as easy/hard may not be the same. You claim to see love everywhere and you have it. Yes love does exist in a the form you are familiar with. BUT that does not mean variables don't exist. A lot of people struggle to find it, even when they are perfectly healthy people.
So when that situation arises, people ADAPT. It shows that finding love is not always in the cards for some people. Bitter or not. It's not something that is in EVERYONE'S destiny. Saying it's easy is basically like calling those who have not found it failures. You may not say it but the message is certainly sent like mishigas stated.
Everyone is not going to see things the way you do or experience the same things you have.
When one sees the longterm, monogamous relationship paradigm all of their lives, and hear people constantly saying "I did it, why can't you?", it can become an issue when that person comes to the realization that that particular manifestation of love doesn't work for them.
Why do these people "lack the ability to forge one for themselves"? Could it possibly be that they have had this relationship paradigm drilled into their heads all of their lives, and don't really accept that it's not the "one true way"?
I think that we (general "we") too often fall into the trap of speaking about these sorts of relationships as the "norm" (i.e. "what should be"). While I honestly don't believe that most people mean to send the message, make no mistake that the message is sent.
I know from experience that it can be tough to figure out where one fits, when it's even just a little "off" the norm. So while I won't feed into the incessant pity parties, I also get where it might come from.
This!^^^
My situation is even easier than that. I'm totally cool with a "long-term monogamous relationship". I just don't want one where I'll be expected to abandon going out and having fun (in a non-cheating way), which I currently enjoy as a single man: karaoke, outdoor sports, weightlifting, bar crawls, trivia, board games, railroad museums, etc. Only to be replaced with sedate candlelit dinners, shopping, "sharing my feelings", and "we need to talk". Because that's exactly what happened to my friends.
Unfortunately, this is the kind of relationship I've been seeing among everybody around me, and it's what "society" expects me to have as well . Well, I know what I want and what I don't want. So "society" can pound sand. By the time the government implements tax and/or criminal penalties for men like me, I'll be really old or past my lifetime.
My situation is even easier than that. I'm totally cool with a "long-term monogamous relationship". I just don't want one where I'll be expected to abandon going out and having fun (in a non-cheating way), which I currently enjoy as a single man: karaoke, outdoor sports, weightlifting, bar crawls, trivia, board games, railroad museums, etc. Only to be replaced with boring candlelit dinners, shopping, "sharing my feelings", and "we need to talk". Because that's exactly what happened to my friends.
Unfortunately, this is the kind of relationship I've been seeing among everybody around me, and it's what "society" expects me to have as well . Well, I know what I want and what I don't want. So "society" can pound sand . By the time the government implements tax and/or criminal penalties for men like me, I'll be really old or gone.
Again, you take the particular and try to make a general statement. If your friends turn into boring lumps who stay home every night, that's their fault, not the result of being in a relationship.
Again, you take the particular and try to make a general statement. If your friends turn into boring lumps who stay home every night, that's their fault, not the result of being in a relationship.
And it's possible that MU's friends don't find spending time with their wives and families boring, and think his need to be entertained 24/7 is boring. It's a big world out there, and just because people aren't doing what you do doesn't mean they're wrong.
Again, you take the particular and try to make a general statement. If your friends turn into boring lumps who stay home every night, that's their fault, not the result of being in a relationship.
Let people live their lives how they see fit. If they aren't harming anyone what's the problem?
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"we need to talk". Because that's exactly what happened to my friends.
. By the time the government implements tax and/or criminal penalties for men like me, I'll be really old or gone.
