Looking for any advice on how to ask someone out on a date? (man, therapy)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by scoutflyer

I have a similar issue. I saw an advertisement on television yesterday for Bounce paper towels where an older woman was using a dating app and was rejecting people until she came across one, and said "he's a nine". So, what does this tell us - what can we infer from this advertisement? Here's what I wrote down after viewing it:

1) There is definitely cultural acceptance out there that people are "sorted" based on numerical value. Enough cultural acceptance of this concept that it permeates into advertisements.

2) It appears the only way to "be valuable" in society is to gain affection from others. It seems as if your "value" is directly proportional to the attention and affection you get, based on my observations thus far. In fact, if you do not, you are often considered a "loser", etc. This is to be avoided at all costs.

3) In order to validate your worth as a person (#2), you must rate highly in terms of the scale of #1.

Where I run aground here is - and I've explained this to my therapist - we must look at this logically and rationally at all times, and disregard any particular way we feel about it. I have tried to tell her that emotions are unscientific, illogical, not rational, and therefore don't really factor into how we value ourselves. We must stick to the empirical. Our value is purely a product of the "marketplace" described in #1. If people don't value you, you are likely not valuable. This is the only logical conclusion I come to.

So, I'm left with the same sense. Am I worth anything? I don't have information. I have trouble asking people out because i need to "price" myself properly in accordance with the principle #1 described above.

This leaves me alone most of the time, wondering if I am living life in accordance with what society deems as desireable or undesireable. If undesireable, what is the next logical step?

OP, you've gotten plenty of input on this thread, that the key is -- what it is about you or anyone, that others value.

You could be valued for your sense of humor. Women flock to guys who can make them laugh, I've seen it happen. Even if they barely graze the 5' mark, they're often surrounded by women. People can value you for your compassion, if you go around doing Good Deeds, and are thoughtful of others. Those of a more mercenary bent value people with money, celebrity power, political power, that sort of thing. People value creative types: gifted musicians or writers. Society values people who can inspire others: MLK, JFK ("Ask not what your country can do for you!..."), people who inspire us to be better people. They value heroes: firefighters, emergency med technicians, ordinary people who display heroism unexpectedly, in emergency situations.

The more quiet types, who have good character but aren't flashy about it, aren't noticed if they don't stand out in a crowd, but people with down-to-earth values will appreciate them when they have the opportunity to get to know them. You don't have to be Mr. Popularity, do you? You seem to be fishing for something along those lines, for validation. But all you need, is to connect with like-minded people like yourself

Forget rating people by numbers. Again--you're paying attention to the wrong input: mostly a lot of nonsense. The advertisement is catchy because it's a gag, a spoof on how shallow people on dating sites think. It's a cliche. You're supposed to laugh at it, and not give it a second thought.

In sum, NO, you don't need to price according to some nonsense, before you can ask anyone out! NO, NO, NO! And btw, dating is about feelings. Feelings are not empirical! Love is illogical! Allow some spontaneity into your life, and you can win! Stop trying to quantify everything, or anything!

Have faith in yourself, OP! You lack faith in yourself. Self-doubt has become an ingrained habit. You're downright OCD about it.

[Ruth4Truth]

Where I run aground here is - and I've explained this to my therapist - we must look at this logically and rationally at all times, and disregard any particular way we feel about it. I have tried to tell her that emotions are unscientific, illogical, not rational, and therefore don't really factor into how we value ourselves. We must stick to the empirical.

You sound like a barrel of monkeys, a lot of fun to be around.

What did your therapist have to say about your little lecture? I can't wait to here this. Please share, OP.

[iwantcookies]

Just ask her out to coffee and see where it goes.

[E-Twist]

Originally Posted by scoutflyer

I have a similar issue. I saw an advertisement on television yesterday for Bounce paper towels where an older woman was using a dating app and was rejecting people until she came across one, and said "he's a nine". So, what does this tell us - what can we infer from this advertisement? Here's what I wrote down after viewing it:

1) There is definitely cultural acceptance out there that people are "sorted" based on numerical value. Enough cultural acceptance of this concept that it permeates into advertisements.

2) It appears the only way to "be valuable" in society is to gain affection from others. It seems as if your "value" is directly proportional to the attention and affection you get, based on my observations thus far. In fact, if you do not, you are often considered a "loser", etc. This is to be avoided at all costs.

3) In order to validate your worth as a person (#2), you must rate highly in terms of the scale of #1.

Where I run aground here is - and I've explained this to my therapist - we must look at this logically and rationally at all times, and disregard any particular way we feel about it. I have tried to tell her that emotions are unscientific, illogical, not rational, and therefore don't really factor into how we value ourselves. We must stick to the empirical. Our value is purely a product of the "marketplace" described in #1. If people don't value you, you are likely not valuable. This is the only logical conclusion I come to.

So, I'm left with the same sense. Am I worth anything? I don't have information. I have trouble asking people out because i need to "price" myself properly in accordance with the principle #1 described above.

This leaves me alone most of the time, wondering if I am living life in accordance with what society deems as desireable or undesireable. If undesireable, what is the next logical step?

Before I came across City Data I didn't realize people spent time catagorizing and rating themselves. It's amazing what people worry about. You are what you are. The woman will either like you enough to go out with you or she won't. The two of you already know each other so just ask her out.

[moongirl00]

Originally Posted by E-Twist

Before I came across City Data I didn't realize people spent time catagorizing and rating themselves. It's amazing what people worry about. You are what you are. The woman will either like you enough to go out with you or she won't. The two of you already know each other so just ask her out.

You really didn't? It was a common thing I have been aware of for a long time. But I also came of age when "Hot or Not" was a thing. You upload a photo and people would rank you on a scale of 1 to 10. It was a very popular website starting around the early 2000s. I didn't use it but knew of it.

Its a very shallow way of thinking though. Especially since you can only rank people by their appearance that way. Things like personality and character actually hold more weight in whom we find attractive, rather than how photogenic someone is. Add things like filters which are very popular now among the young, and photos become almost meaningless in actually being able to tell how attracted you will be to someone.

But yes its sad to say with the advent of things like social media, photo filters, and Hot or Not, there is definitely a shallowness and vanity that has been encouraged. It is a shame.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by E-Twist

Before I came across City Data I didn't realize people spent time catagorizing and rating themselves. .

For real. The only time I even heard anything approaching that was back in middle school or early high school. After that? No. It was a teen drama movie cliche type thing. Like the dorky/nerdy girl who was actually a babe in disguise once she got a new wardrobe and haircut and then poof, everyone noticed her... one of those hollywood only things.

[Special_Guest]

Originally Posted by E-Twist

Before I came across City Data I didn't realize people spent time catagorizing and rating themselves.

I tend to notice that folks here in this forum on CD seem to be a little less connected to some of the things going on in society, which in a way is a good thing; perhaps the forum skews differently - maybe older, or more interested in hobbies therefore less plugged into popular culture and social media; something. But yes, rating has always been a thing, and I feel it has gotten much worse with the rise of the whole red pill, incel culture, as well as online dating apps.

[scoutflyer]

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

I tend to notice that folks here in this forum on CD seem to be a little less connected to some of the things going on in society, which in a way is a good thing; perhaps the forum skews differently - maybe older, or more interested in hobbies therefore less plugged into popular culture and social media; something. But yes, rating has always been a thing, and I feel it has gotten much worse with the rise of the whole red pill, incel culture, as well as online dating apps.

For online dating apps it's pretty much the primary way to match. I would say that in the past people didn't but I don't think that it's true - humans have always been incredibly superficial, online and social media just allows us to be more so.

I was in college when Hot or Not came out - and remember how important people talked about getting a good rating on it. Then, the rise of Facebook - which was originally designed by Zuck as a way to rate women at Harvard...this has been a major part of life in some form or another since the late 90s onward (my formative years).

[jobaba]

Originally Posted by scoutflyer

I have a similar issue. I saw an advertisement on television yesterday for Bounce paper towels where an older woman was using a dating app and was rejecting people until she came across one, and said "he's a nine". So, what does this tell us - what can we infer from this advertisement? Here's what I wrote down after viewing it:

1) There is definitely cultural acceptance out there that people are "sorted" based on numerical value. Enough cultural acceptance of this concept that it permeates into advertisements.

2) It appears the only way to "be valuable" in society is to gain affection from others. It seems as if your "value" is directly proportional to the attention and affection you get, based on my observations thus far. In fact, if you do not, you are often considered a "loser", etc. This is to be avoided at all costs.

3) In order to validate your worth as a person (#2), you must rate highly in terms of the scale of #1.

Where I run aground here is - and I've explained this to my therapist - we must look at this logically and rationally at all times, and disregard any particular way we feel about it. I have tried to tell her that emotions are unscientific, illogical, not rational, and therefore don't really factor into how we value ourselves. We must stick to the empirical. Our value is purely a product of the "marketplace" described in #1. If people don't value you, you are likely not valuable. This is the only logical conclusion I come to.

So, I'm left with the same sense. Am I worth anything? I don't have information. I have trouble asking people out because i need to "price" myself properly in accordance with the principle #1 described above.

This leaves me alone most of the time, wondering if I am living life in accordance with what society deems as desireable or undesireable. If undesireable, what is the next logical step?

Even if you look like Brad Pitt, you are surely aware, as 42 year old man, that your personality is not going to be for most women.

So, that just obliterates your 'value theory'.

Look for ones who match your highly analytical lifestyle disregarding your theory and go from there.

[scoutflyer]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

You sound like a barrel of monkeys, a lot of fun to be around.

What did your therapist have to say about your little lecture? I can't wait to here this. Please share, OP.

My therapist is actually very understanding. She deals with this a lot - I am not so much into the instagram stuff but she has clients who are addicted to cosmetic surgeries, etc. to maximize instagram attention and TInder profile likes, etc. So I'm hardly the worst she has seen in terms of trying to validate myself through seeking out affection / attention from others.

I am in a couple group therapies where people with my issues don't leave their house for years for fear of being judged. I am at least functional, I guess...I hold down a job, I can go to the grocery store. I have occasional mental freakouts (internally) thinking I'm not cool/likeable enough and that I might ruin other people's day by being around them (ruining their selfies, etc.). But I have been able to manage it.