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"I don't want to paint a "pretty picture" of me, I have my problems. Biggest complaint is work, too much of it."
Ohh My god, you're so me like ten years ago! LOL
Has she started saying anything like this?
"I love you but I'm not in love w you"
"We really have nothing in common"
"my friends said you gave me the flowers out of guilt"
"could you just get me a single flower? bunchs are expensive and die quickly"
If you value her, and want to have a relationship START NOW!
You need to work less on finances and more on her, pronto.
Out to dinner alone once a week, even if she resists.
Read the paper with her.
Help her get the kids to bed and then just try to have a conversation with her, with no intention of gettn some, because she probably feels that's all you really want her for.
Ask her how her day went, and then shut the hell up and listen. Don't try to fix any problem she might mention, don't say "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS"
Walks..let her talk again
Explain that you really love her and want to know why you and her have drifted. And YOU ARE WILLING TO DO WHAT IT TAKES
Maybe she's bored, and wondering if this is all there is for her. You get to see rewards for your work in the form of paychecks and promotions, but all she gets are kids that probably are as ungrateful as most kids and and the occassional gesture from her husband. You see your work life laid out in front of you, with pillars to mark the milestones that you are striving to pass. All she sees is her kids getting closer and closer to moving out and her being left in an empty house. It is sort of like knowing that you're job is only going to last so long.
She's been out of the workforce so long that she probably knows that if she goes out to get a job when the kids move out she'll be competing with the 22 year old right out of school.
Maybe she just needs a sense of direction, something that she's working toward that wil reward her with something other than obsolescence. If she never got a degree, there are lots of online schools where she can get one from home. Or she can take classes when the kids are in school. Maybe there's a part time job that she can get that she can do when the kids are in class, something at a local school or university.
It sounds like it could be wonderful to be able to stay home all day, but her entire life right now is in service to others. Find out what she needs to reward herself, and what would give her life purpose. Or at least let her know that you want her to start thinking about what she really wants to do, and that you support her.
Opti - LOL you make a good point. What is funny is the my wife leaves the lid up and it drives me nuts, but I don't say anything. Who wants to look at toilet water? The kids and I make sure the trash is out fast, I hate trash sitting around. LOL it's also funny about cleaning up around the chair, I always pick up my drink glass, and usually have to pick hers up also. About once a month I clean the kitchen, I use it too and I like it organized and clean. I hate look'n for stuff, I can find anything in my office if I went blind. wife looses everthing, shoes, phones, remotes, sunglasses, etc. She spends her life look'n, I spend my life organizing.
Findinghope - I get excited to show her(btw - I have 18 vids so far, 72min worth), then she does something to make me not want to. She knows I have something up, I've told her I can't wait. I thought about also buy'n her a deep fryer, if I don't feel like give'n her the vids I'll give her the fryer.
there may be something/someone else going on. I don't know and she probably wouldn't tell me anyway, but I should ask.
expectations are not being met. mine were not either that is why i am single old and typing on CD all day.
we can't control other people. from what you said if she made an attempt
she feels her obligation has been met. your great efforts to meet your obligations are what she expects in a marriage. take for granted is an ugly word but that is probably bout right. marriage has become in legal terms, an unlimited partnership. meaning 1 partner can easily rip off the other. not a good place to be for a good businessman.
in a divorce this will all stop but with young kids you will have enormous expense. she won't change they will just be out 1 dad.
thru bitter experience many men have found "she" is not their better half.
as to sex--- recent poll on women with kids
60% 1x a week
30% 1x a month
5% never
5% wild variations
Has anybody in your circle of relatives or friends said
"You ought to treat her better" and this kinda puzzled you because you adore her and treat her so good?
Have any of your friends, relatives or neighbors suddenly gotten inexplicably cold toward you, even fighting with you unreasonably?
Have good friends and such suddenly stopped calling you?
Unless I miss my guess you should be able to think of a few..
Wanna know why? She's telling everybody BUT YOU her problem with you, because you are an airhead who thinks the occasional big deal thing makes up for all the missed relationship little things.
LOL - NO Opti, Heck NO! The LID, not the seat. It hasn't been that long since I've "gotten" some. That would be a deal breaker, not good if your wife p's standing up!
Captain, I think I can give you a different perspective on this. I might suggest, first of all, that you pick up Gary Chapman's book "The Five Love Languages". It's good... not as comprehensive as I'd like, but a good start for a topic that tends to flummox a lot of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
Married 15yrs, 2 kids middle school age, I work, she is SAHM.
I feel like I show my love for my wife by doing nice "out of the ordinary" type things. Groc shop and buy her a "treat" that I know she likes but won't buy it because it is nearly pure sugar(and she gets embarrased buying it herself). I cook as often as I can, breakfasts but mostly suppers.....and they are not normal things(ie, shrimp, chicken, cajun, and some "plain" stuff). I've bought her a free 1hr massage that she can do anytime she wants, flowers for no reason, gifts for Christmas/b-day/anniversary, etc.
I feel it is all one-sided, sex once so far this month, I haven't gotten a gift for b-day for I don't know how long, and forget about anniversay gifts.
I'm going to stop you right here, Cap'n. First of all, I believe that you are entirely sincere in your love for your wife and I believe that you really do believe that you are loving her, and being a good loving husband generically speaking, by doing what you're doing.
However... is what you're doing really what she wants? Does she read love in what you're doing? Gary Chapman's five love languages are as follows:
- Words of Affirmation
- Receiving Gifts
- Physical Touch
- Quality Time
- Acts of Service
His premise is that each person has one of these five things from which he/she reads love most strongly. His book even has a test to help you figure yours out. (I took the test and turned out to be a mutant... I had THREE which were in a nearly dead-heat 3-way tie for first place.)
Words of Affirmation basically means that you read love when you are told positive things which help to build you up. Receiving Gifts means that you read love when you are given something material. Physical Touch ought to be self-explanatory. Quality Time means that you read love when your spouse spends time with you, doing something you enjoy (or just conversing) and paying attention to you. Acts of Service means that you read love when your spouse does something for you.
Seems to me that you're big on Gifts and Acts of Service. That's cool. You buy her gifts (like the massage, the flowers, etc) and you think to yourself "I'm going to show my wife how much I love her by getting her this stuff which I'm sure she'll really like". You go grocery shopping for her and you think "I'm showing my wife how much I love her by doing this myself and relieving some of her burden". And, sir, you are sincere about it!
However... suppose she doesn't really want that? Suppose your First Mate is more of a "Words of Affirmation" person, and she thinks "This is nice, but I wish that Cap would tell me that I'm beautiful, that he really believes in me and he appreciates the work I do around the house, etc"? I don't know what the deal is, but let's play a hypothetical game for a moment and assume that I'm right on with this. In your mind, you may not think you need to tell her she's beautiful all that often... because you said it a couple of times back in the day, you have never uttered one negative word about her appearance in 15 years of marriage, and heaven knows you're still sexually attracted to her. "She just ought to KNOW, because of that, that I think she's beautiful!" Well, maybe she does and maybe she doesn't. Perhaps you told her way back in the day, when you were first married, that it means a lot to you to have a clean house. So she cleans the house, and you're happy... you think "well, I already TOLD her back in the beginning that it makes me happy to have a clean house... nothing has changed, and I don't complain about her cleaning... so isn't that good enough?" Maybe not.
I'll give you an example of this from my own life. My wife enjoys cooking, and heaven knows, she's good at it. However, I could take that or leave it. I'm not a big "Acts Of Service" guy. In the beginning, she was disappointed that I didn't read love in things she did for me, such as cook dinner. (To her, she was showing me love by doing those things for me.) I told her "it's nice, and I do enjoy your food, but to me that doesn't speak love. If you choose not to cook, I won't care. I'll eat a can of Spaghetti-Os and be perfectly fine." (Actually, I'm eating a can of Spaghetti-Os right now. My culinary tastes are still on par with those of the average 3rd-grader. ) Instead of her doing things like that for me, I'd much rather have something like... sex! Let's say we have one hour between when she comes home from work and when we have to leave the house again. Given my choice between a nice lovemaking session followed by a quick dinner which consists of two cheap frozen meals which take five minutes to fire up in the microwave... or my wife spending 40 minutes cooking a fancy dinner which will take us the last 20 minutes to consume... I'll take sex and cheap frozen meals any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
The kids and her will be w/her family today thru monday so she went groc shopp'n, nothing there for me to eat or cook(I gotta work). When I get home from work I usually make my own supper, and when I'm about done she'll say "I brought home supper for you". I'll say I'm sorry that I didn't see it and ask where it's at, typical answer is "Oh, I guess it's still in the car".(happens alot, and has probably been in there a good 3hrs).
What you're saying here is that you want your wife to do Acts of Service, and possibly Gift-Giving, for you as well. This is typical... people who are unaware of this topic tend to give love in the same ways in which they would most prefer to receive love. (That's not always a bad thing. My wife and I took the aforementioned "test" at the end of the Five Love Languages book, independently... 30 questions and we put the same answers down for 28 of them. The other two were almost too close to call for both of us, so the fact that we differed on those answers was negligible. So, we both like to give and receive love in the same ways... sure makes our lives easy. )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
I take care of the bills, all finances. She hasn't balanced a check book for 15yrs.
I don't want to paint a "pretty picture" of me, I have my problems. Biggest complaint is work, too much of it.
This can't be "love", she'll say it over and over, but I don't feel it at all. I feel like roommates.
Your needs are not being met. Is she aware of the things in which you read love? The first complaint you listed was that you only had sex once this month. Is she aware that sex, for you, is more than just a physiological need? Let's face it... any man with an imagination and a minimal amount of manual dexterity can masturbate. So much for the physiological need. Does she know that you read love in sex?
So, your wife says she loves you. I ask you this... How do you suppose your wife would answer the question of "What do you do to show your husband that you love him?" Does she do anything for you which she would consider a display of love? She may be the only person who can tell you how she displays/manifests her love for you. Perhaps you don't even see it. She is over there thinking that she's showing you love, and she may be plenty frustrated that you're not reading love. It's sort of like speaking with someone who knows only Mandarin Chinese when you know only English. The both of you are trying furiously to communicate something to the other, and each of you is sincere and becoming more and more frustrated by the minute... but no communication will take place when you're speaking two entirely different and reciprocally incomprehensible languages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
I can't make her change, so why bring it up? Do I keep doing what I am doing, or quit so she can see when it's gone?
Maybe you don't have to make her change. If she says she loves you, my guess is that she is trying to love you. You have to sit down together, talk it over, and put everything onto the table. Tell her how you read love, and listen intently when she tells you how she reads love. Then, work out a plan for how you will show your love to each other.
Bear in mind one of the notions that Gary Chapman mentions in his book... he calls it the "Love Tank". It's a hypothetical way of showing how "full of love" a person feels. When someone does not receive love, it's like a car that does not receive gasoline. Eventually, it stops running. If you try to put the wrong fuel into a car's gas tank (such as diesel into a car that needs unleaded gasoline), the car won't run. You have to put in the right fuel, frequently enough, to keep the car running. Whenever you do something for your wife from which she reads love, her "love tank" fills a bit. A person who feels full of love will act differently than a person who feels empty.
Perhaps the reason why your wife says she loves you is because she does read love in your acts of service and gift-giving. So, SHE feels loved... and likely to say she loves you plus manifest that love. She just needs to manifest it in the right way. If she manifests it in the wrong way, it's very easy for you to get to feeling unloved. If we had enough money that we could buy lots of things all the time, and my wife constantly gave me gifts (with the intent of showing me love) but rarely ever touched me and was sexually unresponsive, it wouldn't take long at all before I withdrew and we became nothing more than glorified roommates. It's like trying to find the right key for a lock when you have more keys than a high school janitor... you can be trying with all of your might, every possible way... but if you don't use the right key, all of your effort will be for naught.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
Is this typical? I'ts been like this a while and I feel like I'm try'n and she is just waiting till I get it right before she'll do something for me. I'ts make'n me tired.
Are you positive that she does nothing for you? Look at everything she DOES do... and consider that maybe she is doing much of it with the intention of showing you love... but she doesn't know that you don't read love in those actions.
Even if what you're saying is entirely true, ask her what you have to do to "get it right" as you said. She'll probably be more than happy to give you a detailed explanation of what she wants!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
I have made a "romantic" gift for her for our anniversary, I don't know if I want to give it to her anymore.
Any suggestions? Thanks
I don't know if I could give any more suggestions without knowing more details. You'll have to decide whether or not you want to supply more details. Your situation is typical enough that a psychologist could write a book on the subject which eventually became a smash best-seller, and spawned plenty of sequels. Does that help?
BTW as I reread your posts it seems you think you love her, but have a much higher opinion of yourself than her.
You believe you're the caring one.
You struggle to think of her contributions while extorting yours.
She's messy, your organized.
She's adlewitted, your sharp, organized, direction oriented.
I just can't even think of a reason she'd leave the seat up, unless....you don't put it up before urinating??? Women do their business sitting, i'm pretty sure that's almost a universal, that one statement by you makes me think you're either ultra defensive, or something else is going on.
Basically..if she's this bad, divorce her. You might think you love her, but it doesn't seem you like her. I wonder if she's picked up on that in fifteen years..lol
Nobody has ever told me to treat her better. They do make comments that she "has it made", her mom and sisters all must work. We don't have as many "toys" as they do, but we live comfortably.
Divorce is not a really a worry right now.
She has a degree, she also paints pictures and frames them for people. Not many but a few. She is an artist and we have a room FULL of her paintings, and our basement is 3/4 full. She likes doing it.
she has never given me the old line of "not IN love w/you". That is a sure sign of someone cheating, IMHO.
Mari4him - great advise. I may be clear off in right field when I should be pitch'n.
One Love Buster I think I do is get mad at her parents, not infront of them though. They take advantage of her and sometimes me. I told my wife they can't borrow anymore of my stuff. They've brought it back broken, no fuel left, or kept it. I see it there and tell them I need it back, they say they bought it and they don't have mine. BS! They mooch and are tighter than bark on a tree. I hold back as much as I can, and if some BS comes up w/them I usually leave the house or at least the room and tell her it's up to her and I can't talk about it or I'll get mad. She understands
Don't get me wrong, her parents have more good qualities than bad, but this one really rubs me wrong. I'm sure I rub them wrong sometimes too.
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), then she does something to make me not want to. She knows I have something up, I've told her I can't wait. I thought about also buy'n her a deep fryer, if I don't feel like give'n her the vids I'll give her the fryer. 
