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In any event testosterone is what essentially made men, men giving them the build/strength, aggression, risk taking, and impulsiveness and why it was men who fought the beast for food or safety, waged war and built civilizations while women filled the supporting role and guaranteed perpetuation of the species. Although all that has ceased to be necessary for a long time.
One could say a factor in women living longer than men is their increased estrogen levels or that second X chromosome.
Yes there is a lot of misplaced aggression out there. So fighting the village instead of fighting to protect the village. A lot of angry single men or married men with an us vs them mentality. In my decades of life I see more male aggression now than I ever have and it's often directed toward the innocent or weak. Then you see women keeping greater distance from men because of bad experiences and a cycle of more single angry men.
Yes there is a lot of misplaced aggression out there. So fighting the village instead of fighting to protect the village. A lot of angry single men or married men with an us vs them mentality. In my decades of life I see more male aggression now than I ever have and it's often directed toward the innocent or weak. Then you see women keeping greater distance from men because of bad experiences and a cycle of more single angry men.
Though it may by now be predictable of me, since I've made similar statements around the forums before, I don't really think that such things are getting worse. Violent crime has been going down, except for a spike in 2020, for decades in the US at least. And I really object to people believing in overly rosy ideas about how the past was like. Those who had idyllic childhoods or have memories of what seemed like a more wholesome time, are often failing to take into account that they may have been simply fortunate in their personal circumstances. There was a lot of alcoholism and violence in previous generations of my own family. And every abusive or violent man I have ever known has told me stories about how much worse his own father was. I think that each link in a generational chain will often try to be better than the one before, though still often failing to live up to the best expectations...still, they try.
My father's earliest memory is when his Dad beat him until he was unconscious. He was 3. My Dad spanked me as a small child, and punched walls, but did not engage in his Dad's degree of abuse by a long shot. My ex had to face escalation from an open hand, to a belt, to a board, to a closed fist. He was also violent, but not nearly so much as that. Society in general used to accept men hitting their wives and children, and swept it under the rug...not so much these days.
So I really am not convinced that things now are worse.
But yes, bullies will be bullies, even if their tactics shift from physical brutality to emotional and psychological torment. And the internet has made a lot of the latter efforts very visible. And of course there are observations some of us may make about those who idealize bully behavior in leaders and speakers that they follow, as well.
Yes there is a lot of misplaced aggression out there. So fighting the village instead of fighting to protect the village. A lot of angry single men or married men with an us vs them mentality. In my decades of life I see more male aggression now than I ever have and it's often directed toward the innocent or weak. Then you see women keeping greater distance from men because of bad experiences and a cycle of more single angry men.
I dont see it in my real life but it would seem so watching the new and social media. Violence against women and children has been around since our beginnings. There is more public awareness and legal protections.
Funny thing the overall testosterone levels in men have been steadily decreasing for decades.
In any event testosterone is what essentially made men, men giving them the build/strength, aggression, risk taking, and impulsiveness and why it was men who fought the beast for food or safety, waged war and built civilizations while women filled the supporting role and guaranteed perpetuation of the species. Although all that has ceased to be necessary for a long time.
One could say a factor in women living longer than men is their increased estrogen levels or that second X chromosome.
If increased estrogen levels were what was making women live longer than men, women who go on hormone therapy in menopause and keep their estrogen levels higher should live longer than women who don't.
What would also be interesting to look at is whether women who never use hormonal contraception whether they live longer than women who do.
Personally I am weary of all of the hormones we give to both men and women and what this does over the long term to our health. As a guy, while I go to the gym a lot, I never took steroids and I have no interest in testosterone replacement therapy because I have seen what happens to guys long term in the gym who took steroids and I suspect testosterone replacement therapy will create similar problems long term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Though it may by now be predictable of me, since I've made similar statements around the forums before, I don't really think that such things are getting worse. Violent crime has been going down, except for a spike in 2020, for decades in the US at least. And I really object to people believing in overly rosy ideas about how the past was like. Those who had idyllic childhoods or have memories of what seemed like a more wholesome time, are often failing to take into account that they may have been simply fortunate in their personal circumstances. There was a lot of alcoholism and violence in previous generations of my own family. And every abusive or violent man I have ever known has told me stories about how much worse his own father was. I think that each link in a generational chain will often try to be better than the one before, though still often failing to live up to the best expectations...still, they try.
My father's earliest memory is when his Dad beat him until he was unconscious. He was 3. My Dad spanked me as a small child, and punched walls, but did not engage in his Dad's degree of abuse by a long shot. My ex had to face escalation from an open hand, to a belt, to a board, to a closed fist. He was also violent, but not nearly so much as that. Society in general used to accept men hitting their wives and children, and swept it under the rug...not so much these days.
So I really am not convinced that things now are worse.
But yes, bullies will be bullies, even if their tactics shift from physical brutality to emotional and psychological torment. And the internet has made a lot of the latter efforts very visible. And of course there are observations some of us may make about those who idealize bully behavior in leaders and speakers that they follow, as well.
One thing I think about is the industrial food system is injecting a bunch of hormones into the foods we eat to fatten up animals. There are also a bunch of foods that are stored and packaged in plastics that can act as hormone disruptors as well.
If you look at the age of first menses in women, a hundred years ago it was around 16 or 17 today it's around 9 and falling. If you look at sperm counts in men, they too are plummeting.
All of this points to me that testosterone levels are likely way down versus the past, so I suspect if anything male aggression from testosterone is likely way down as well.
One of the points Steven Pinker made is that the trend lines are broadly positive when it comes to violence and aggression in society.
I dont see it in my real life but it would seem so watching the new and social media. Violence against women and children has been around since our beginnings. There is more public awareness and legal protections.
Funny thing the overall testosterone levels in men have been steadily decreasing for decades.
Aggression isn't always just about violence, it can be intimidation and other forms of abuse. Why is it that girls are now afraid of being approached, or flirted with? When it used to be just a normal thing for a boy to come up to a girl and say hi. We weren't afraid to reject a guy. So very many stories of "incel" type behavior now, with these approaches being very aggressive and scary, and women too intimidated to reject men. They have fake numbers to give rather than just say no.
I don't know if this has anything to do with testosterone, or just bad character on display.
Aggression isn't always just about violence, it can be intimidation and other forms of abuse. Why is it that girls are now afraid of being approached, or flirted with? When it used to be just a normal thing for a boy to come up to a girl and say hi. We weren't afraid to reject a guy. So very many stories of "incel" type behavior now, with these approaches being very aggressive and scary, and women too intimidated to reject men. They have fake numbers to give rather than just say no.
I don't know if this has anything to do with testosterone, or just bad character on display.
I would point to the internet for a lot of this.
First of all, how universal is this, truly? I don't have a fear reaction to strangers trying to chat with me. I also enjoy being called on the phone, and would not mind if friends dropped by unannounced and rang the doorbell. In fact, I would LOVE that. But I hear tons of people, especially younger ones but not exclusively so by far, saying "I am an introvert! A phone call is like a physical attack, and don't you dare come to my home!" People weren't like this so much before the internet and cell phones. But then, too, perhaps when the phone was tethered to the wall and if you were not home, you'd simply miss the call...feels different than now, like now it's a right-now demand on our attention.
Point being, a whoooole lot of "how to human" stuff has been shifting in weird ways since everybody got online and got cell phones. Still, I suspect that by virtue of self-selection and people talking about what upsets them more than mundane interactions that are not bothersome...we hear more about it online than what is any accurate proportionate representation of real life incidents. Just like murders make the news but no one talks about that time you helped a homeless person or rescued an injured animal or any of a thousand good things that happen every day.
I mean, even I would be more likely to come here and talk about some dude who behaved weirdly or creeped me out, than I would a nice chat I had with a friendly stranger when I was out running errands. But the latter happen almost every time I leave the house...the first thing? Not so much. Maybe once in several years?
Though I did get a lot of very inappropriate attention from grown men when I was about 12. That was in 1991. There just wasn't anywhere to go complain to anybody about it. My Mom thought it was funny.
I would not expect guys on a construction site these days to shout at a 12 year old girl to "come here and s my d" would you? But back in 1991, when no one had a cell phone camera to point at them...
If increased estrogen levels were what was making women live longer than men, women who go on hormone therapy in menopause and keep their estrogen levels higher should live longer than women who don't.
What would also be interesting to look at is whether women who never use hormonal contraception whether they live longer than women who do.
Personally I am weary of all of the hormones we give to both men and women and what this does over the long term to our health. As a guy, while I go to the gym a lot, I never took steroids and I have no interest in testosterone replacement therapy because I have seen what happens to guys long term in the gym who took steroids and I suspect testosterone replacement therapy will create similar problems long term.
One thing I think about is the industrial food system is injecting a bunch of hormones into the foods we eat to fatten up animals. There are also a bunch of foods that are stored and packaged in plastics that can act as hormone disruptors as well.
If you look at the age of first menses in women, a hundred years ago it was around 16 or 17 today it's around 9 and falling. If you look at sperm counts in men, they too are plummeting.
All of this points to me that testosterone levels are likely way down versus the past, so I suspect if anything male aggression from testosterone is likely way down as well.
One of the points Steven Pinker made is that the trend lines are broadly positive when it comes to violence and aggression in society.
Aggression isn't always just about violence, it can be intimidation and other forms of abuse. Why is it that girls are now afraid of being approached, or flirted with? When it used to be just a normal thing for a boy to come up to a girl and say hi. We weren't afraid to reject a guy. So very many stories of "incel" type behavior now, with these approaches being very aggressive and scary, and women too intimidated to reject men. They have fake numbers to give rather than just say no.
I don't know if this has anything to do with testosterone, or just bad character on display.
It seems today everyone is afraid to be approached. Social media, news travels faster and more broadly now, we have become slaves to email and texting instead of personal face to face interactions. There has always been some apprehension of being approached by an unknown male under certain circumstances and women have used the fake number for some time. It is as much a matter of not wanting to hurt someone's feels or deal with their rejection than fear of retaliation.
In my youth there were many times I was apprehensive or downright scared in the presence of men and many times men acted inappropriately physically and psychologically.
First of all, how universal is this, truly? I don't have a fear reaction to strangers trying to chat with me. I also enjoy being called on the phone, and would not mind if friends dropped by unannounced and rang the doorbell. In fact, I would LOVE that. But I hear tons of people, especially younger ones but not exclusively so by far, saying "I am an introvert! A phone call is like a physical attack, and don't you dare come to my home!" People weren't like this so much before the internet and cell phones. But then, too, perhaps when the phone was tethered to the wall and if you were not home, you'd simply miss the call...feels different than now, like now it's a right-now demand on our attention.
Point being, a whoooole lot of "how to human" stuff has been shifting in weird ways since everybody got online and got cell phones. Still, I suspect that by virtue of self-selection and people talking about what upsets them more than mundane interactions that are not bothersome...we hear more about it online than what is any accurate proportionate representation of real life incidents. Just like murders make the news but no one talks about that time you helped a homeless person or rescued an injured animal or any of a thousand good things that happen every day.
I mean, even I would be more likely to come here and talk about some dude who behaved weirdly or creeped me out, than I would a nice chat I had with a friendly stranger when I was out running errands. But the latter happen almost every time I leave the house...the first thing? Not so much. Maybe once in several years?
Though I did get a lot of very inappropriate attention from grown men when I was about 12. That was in 1991. There just wasn't anywhere to go complain to anybody about it. My Mom thought it was funny.
I would not expect guys on a construction site these days to shout at a 12 year old girl to "come here and s my d" would you? But back in 1991, when no one had a cell phone camera to point at them...
It seems today everyone is afraid to be approached. Social media, news travels faster and more broadly now, we have become slaves to email and texting instead of personal face to face interactions. There has always been some apprehension of being approached by an unknown male under certain circumstances and women have used the fake number for some time. It is as much a matter of not wanting to hurt someone's feels or deal with their rejection than fear of retaliation.
In my youth there were many times I was apprehensive or downright scared in the presence of men and many times men acted inappropriately physically and psychologically.
I was kind of a guy's gal pal, I was not afraid of regular or random men. They were usually cool and sometimes i would be the only girl riding around with a car of guys. lol. The ones who hurt me were older men in authority positions, who I wanted nothing to do with but you can't avoid - teachers, cops, bosses, etc.
I am giving the young women today the benefit of any doubt, even as an older lady I have been experiencing intimidating, crude behavior from random guys out of nowhere. Just my experience but it validates that of others too.
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