Who's raising the kids? (how to, women, young, pregnancy)
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I'm arguing against the misguided notion that day care providers raise our children because they don't. What they do is care for our kids when we are not there. In that, they assist us in raising our children but it is still me raising them. I even decide who their day care provider is. I make the choices that determine their experiences. No one I hire to help me do that changes that I raise my kids.
You're opinion. However, it does not make it fact nor is it a one size fits all theology. Though I do agree that in most cases it is an assistance, therefore a joint effort, in raising the children alongside with the parents. I also agree that part of the parent's raising involves choosing the day care, in fact, I made such statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
My point is simple. Raising children requires more than 50 hours a week, Monday-Friday with weekends, holidays and vacations off for 5 years. WAY MORE. Day care providers don't have enough time to raise a child so they can't. It's way more likely the parents who will be there all 18 years children are being actively raised are the ones raising them. With help, of course but everyone has help. None of us raise our kids in isolation.
You're point of view comes across very clear. But, you fail to respect anyone else's differing point of view. Believe it or not, there are people in this world that will attribute their raising to other's who were not their parent's despite having spent 18 years living in the same house with their parents. You can even read it throughout some of the threads here in City Data. People who state their parents were too busy with their own lives to have any time for them while they were growing up.
Do not diminish the influence and role that others such as daycare centers or workers, teachers and clergy have in the raising of a child. Yes they assist in the cases where the parents are actually doing their jobs, but in the cases where the parents are too self-absorbed to bother, sometimes the only raising and influence these children received is from outside parties they spent a large amount of time with.
Again, no clear cut answer because each family is different. But, I for one, appreciate and respect tremendously the work, love, and effort that good daycare providers offer to the children in their care.
I agree..I have a little girl who is now in third grade and when she has a bad day she asks her Dad if they can stop here to talk to me.sooooo cute.
I have had one family whom I have had for 18 years starting with the cousins... The last of the family is the 4 year old who will be moving on to preschool. She will still be here with me 1 day a week and I will tell you that when the siblings who are now 12 and 10 have a day off from school they too ask if they can come here for the day. Personally, I am honored.
It shows the quality of home that you provided for those children. And in my opinion, you absolutely had a hand in raising them. Good job to have them remember you so foundly.
You're opinion. However, it does not make it fact nor is it a one size fits all theology. Though I do agree that in most cases it is an assistance, therefore a joint effort, in raising the children alongside with the parents. I also agree that part of the parent's raising involves choosing the day care, in fact, I made such statement.
You're point of view comes across very clear. But, you fail to respect anyone else's differing point of view. Believe it or not, there are people in this world that will attribute their raising to other's who were not their parent's despite having spent 18 years living in the same house with their parents. You can even read it throughout some of the threads here in City Data. People who state their parents were too busy with their own lives to have any time for them while they were growing up.
Do not diminish the influence and role that others such as daycare centers or workers, teachers and clergy have in the raising of a child. Yes they assist in the cases where the parents are actually doing their jobs, but in the cases where the parents are too self-absorbed to bother, sometimes the only raising and influence these children received is from outside parties they spent a large amount of time with.
Again, no clear cut answer because each family is different. But, I for one, appreciate and respect tremendously the work, love, and effort that good daycare providers offer to the children in their care.
I'm aware that other people attribute their raising to others but I'm willing to bet that it's rarely someone, like a day care provider, who was out of their life by the time they started school.
My grandmother definitely contributed to raising me but she was there all 18 years of my life. If I hadn't seen her past age 5, like I haven't seen my day care providers, she wouldn't have been an influence at all. IMO, day care experiences are too young in life to have an impact on raising a child other than providing basics that might not be there otherwise. I think day care providers are very limited in their abilty to raise children because they are usually out of a child's life before serious raising is going on. I just don't think kids are raised to any extent by the time they start school. So I don't think a day care provider can raise a child. I think you need to continue contact beyond those early years to do so.
Just wanted to add that my great grandmother, whom I spent a lot of time with, died about the time I was 5. She has no more influence on my life than my forgotten day care providers. She's a picture in my photo album. I can remember her being there but feel no influence after all these years yet I remember being very upset when she died. I was too young for her to have much influence.
I'm aware that other people attribute their raising to others but I'm willing to bet that it's rarely someone, like a day care provider, who was out of their life by the time they started school.
My grandmother definitely contributed to raising me but she was there all 18 years of my life. If I hadn't seen her past age 5, like I haven't seen my day care providers, she wouldn't have been an influence at all. IMO, day care experiences are too young in life to have an impact on raising a child other than providing basics that might not be there otherwise. I think day care providers are very limited in their abilty to raise children because they are usually out of a child's life before serious raising is going on. I just don't think kids are raised to any extent by the time they start school. So I don't think a day care provider can raise a child. I think you need to continue contact beyond those early years to do so.
Just wanted to add that my great grandmother, whom I spent a lot of time with, died about the time I was 5. She has no more influence on my life than my forgotten day care providers. She's a picture in my photo album. I can remember her being there but feel no influence after all these years yet I remember being very upset when she died. I was too young for her to have much influence.
That's you, but you gotta understand that not everyone is you. My great-grandmother died when my children were young, my son was about 10 and my daughter about 6, she highly influenced them and there is much that they remember about her and many things that she taught them and instilled in them that they remember. Everyone is different and what has a profound affect on one person may have no affect at all on another.
There is a huge difference bewteen being influenced and remembering being influenced.
Children untended in the years birth to 5 is a recipe for a sociopath.
Degrees of abandonment and inability or confusion in bonding creates varying degrees of insecurity and other problems.
Basic levels of emotional stability are already in place by the age 5.
I'm going to have to start questioning my own mental stability for even bothering to post this stuff
Where am I...how the hell did I get here???
Crazyworld.....bless you.You've obviously cared for the children of others as well as if they were yours.
You (and probably many day care providers) probably have been a better "mother" to some of these kids than the ones that spit them out.
That's you, but you gotta understand that not everyone is you. My great-grandmother died when my children were young, my son was about 10 and my daughter about 6, she highly influenced them and there is much that they remember about her and many things that she taught them and instilled in them that they remember. Everyone is different and what has a profound affect on one person may have no affect at all on another.
Few people are raised enough by 5 or 6 for people who leave their lives around that time to be a major impact. As a "raised" adult, I see little impact from people who left my life before I was 6. Very little. The only impact I see from great grandma is this was my first memorable experience with death. That did have impact but she didn't.
I do think people are different but I think I'm pretty typical. You do have atyipcal kids like my youngest who has clear memories going back to when she was not more than 1. However she is highly gifted. She claims she likes country music because her day care provider used to play it at nap time. So far, that's the only influence we see. Though her day care provider was chosen so that our beliefs would be reinforced. With the same things being taught at home and day care, it might be hard to see any effect but that's just another example of how it's the parents impact that matters since the parents choose the day care provider.
You're opinion. However, it does not make it fact nor is it a one size fits all theology. Though I do agree that in most cases it is an assistance, therefore a joint effort, in raising the children alongside with the parents. I also agree that part of the parent's raising involves choosing the day care, in fact, I made such statement.
You're point of view comes across very clear. But, you fail to respect anyone else's differing point of view. Believe it or not, there are people in this world that will attribute their raising to other's who were not their parent's despite having spent 18 years living in the same house with their parents. You can even read it throughout some of the threads here in City Data. People who state their parents were too busy with their own lives to have any time for them while they were growing up.
Do not diminish the influence and role that others such as daycare centers or workers, teachers and clergy have in the raising of a child. Yes they assist in the cases where the parents are actually doing their jobs, but in the cases where the parents are too self-absorbed to bother, sometimes the only raising and influence these children received is from outside parties they spent a large amount of time with.
Again, no clear cut answer because each family is different. But, I for one, appreciate and respect tremendously the work, love, and effort that good daycare providers offer to the children in their care.
What percentage of parents are too self absorbed to bother? You do like to go to the extremes to try and prove your point.
And actually, no. Even if the aprents are too self absorbed to bother, that doesn't mean a day care provider can raise a child in 5 short years. For good or for bad, the child will spend the vast majority of their time in the care of their parents over the 18 or more years they're being raised (many people aren't quite raised by age 18).
I've given my argument for why day care providers don't raise our kids. You don't seem to have a counter argument for why they do.
Simply put, they can't. Most of them are out of a child's life before that child is half raised let alone raised. Very little "raising' goes on in the first few years. It's just starting to take off about the time a day care provider is replaced by teachers who change every year so they're transient. The only permanent fixtures are the parents. I'm baffled as to why you think others would do more raising than they do.
There is a huge difference bewteen being influenced and remembering being influenced.
Children untended in the years birth to 5 is a recipe for a sociopath.
Degrees of abandonment and inability or confusion in bonding creates varying degrees of insecurity and other problems.
Basic levels of emotional stability are already in place by the age 5.
I'm going to have to start questioning my own mental stability for even bothering to post this stuff
Where am I...how the hell did I get here???
Crazyworld.....bless you.You've obviously cared for the children of others as well as if they were yours.
You (and probably many day care providers) probably have been a better "mother" to some of these kids than the ones that spit them out.
I've already said that permanent damage can be done in the early years but that comes from not having basic needs met. That goes beyond someone's influence and into the realm of physiological damage.
Children denied basic good care do indeed have permanent effects but that is not the same as saying some particular person had influence. Those are kids who were not given the minimum to thrive. They're not your typical child in day care by any means. We aren't talking about children denied basic care or abandoned or not allowed to bond with caregivers. There is a difference between not having your basic needs met and the influence of people who happened to be in your life at that time.
I'm talking about healthy kids who go to day care here. Not kids denied what was necessary for proper development. Totally different ball parks here.
Unfortunately, people acatually try to use these extreme cases to justify saying that the first years are so critical we must control everything. No, we just need to make sure basic needs are met so that you avoid going there. Beyond that children develop quite normally in many different settings.
What percentage of parents are too self absorbed to bother? You do like to go to the extremes to try and prove your point.
And actually, no. Even if the aprents are too self absorbed to bother, that doesn't mean a day care provider can raise a child in 5 short years. For good or for bad, the child will spend the vast majority of their time in the care of their parents over the 18 or more years they're being raised (many people aren't quite raised by age 18).
I've given my argument for why day care providers don't raise our kids. You don't seem to have a counter argument for why they do.
Simply put, they can't. Most of them are out of a child's life before that child is half raised let alone raised. Very little "raising' goes on in the first few years. It's just starting to take off about the time a day care provider is replaced by teachers who change every year so they're transient. The only permanent fixtures are the parents. I'm baffled as to why you think others would do more raising than they do.
Of course you'd be baffled and not see any argument but yours. To put it clearly, in the cases where the parents are failing to spend any quality time invested in the raising of their children because they are too self-absorbed in their careers and keeping up with the Jones, pushing their kids out of the car at the daycare so they can rush to their cushy jobs and make that money so they can buy the newest model lexus and pay their extravagant mortgage only to push it to the last possible moment before they pick up their child again at daycare, DURING those years, and under those circumstances, it is NOT the parent raising the children, it is the daycare basically doing so. HOWEVER, before you twist my words around, in the cases where the parents are not self-absorbed and are taking the time to invest in their children and raise them, which thankfully is probably more often the case than not, the parents raise the child with the assistance of the daycare that also, DURING those years, holds a part/role in the raising of the child, for whatever time period that may be.
Is that a bit clearer. Goodness. Why is it so difficult for you to accept that when a child is placed in any situation where they spend any amount of extended period with other human beings, those other human beings have a part/role in raising your children. You are just of the mindset that they hold none. Their only job is to care for the child. For all intense purposes they could have the child sitting on the couch watching TV all day long and never for one moment teach them a darn thing.
Of course you'd be baffled and not see any argument but yours. To put it clearly, in the cases where the parents are failing to spend any quality time invested in the raising of their children because they are too self-absorbed in their careers and keeping up with the Jones, pushing their kids out of the car at the daycare so they can rush to their cushy jobs and make that money so they can buy the newest model lexus and pay their extravagant mortgage only to push it to the last possible moment before they pick up their child again at daycare, DURING those years, and under those circumstances, it is NOT the parent raising the children, it is the daycare basically doing so. HOWEVER, before you twist my words around, in the cases where the parents are not self-absorbed and are taking the time to invest in their children and raise them, which thankfully is probably more often the case than not, the parents raise the child with the assistance of the daycare that also, DURING those years, holds a part/role in the raising of the child, for whatever time period that may be.
Is that a bit clearer. Goodness. Why is it so difficult for you to accept that when a child is placed in any situation where they spend any amount of extended period with other human beings, those other human beings have a part/role in raising your children. You are just of the mindset that they hold none. Their only job is to care for the child. For all intense purposes they could have the child sitting on the couch watching TV all day long and never for one moment teach them a darn thing.
I'm not too baffled to see any argument but mine. I'm baffled that you keep grasping at extremes to try and prove your point. Extremes prove nothing. Try averages but if you do that, you can't make your point. Sure there are extreme cases where parents don't raise their own kids. I can show you one across the street and mom stays at home. Her kids are growing up like weeds. What does that prove? Nothing other than there are idiots in this world. Her kids, unfortunately, are raising each other because mom can't be bothered.
Saying people have a part in raising a child is different than claiming they raise them. I've already said that day care providers assist parents in raising their kids. They don't, however raise them in our absence. In fact, given children aren't anywhere near raised by the time they're out of day care, I can't say they raise them at all. They do help the parents. Other people who are around for the long haul very likely to have influence. But they're their for prime raising years not just the early ones when what kids need is good care to develop properly.
Again I ask, what percentage of parents are too self absorbed? And how would I recognize them if I saw them? I know plenty of working parents but none who are too self absorbed to raise their kids. Some of them are pretty self absorbed but they manage to raise their kids anyway. Fortunately, with all the modern conveniences we have, we have lots of extra time. Today's full time working mom has more liesure time than a stay at home mom had 100 years ago.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-21-2008 at 04:02 PM..
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