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If that truly works for them and they're happy, that's great. I really mean that. It would be hard for to estimate our ratio; it's certainly not like we literally take turns making decisions. We usually want the same things, so we don't often have to try to convince one another of something. I am in charge of the budget and sometimes have to tell him, "This is not a good time to buy that" or "We can do that in two months but not now" or "You're being impulsive--are you sure we need this?" If he feels strongly about something, though, he'll tell me why, and if we can make it happen, we'll figure out how. We come to the decision together.
I'd suggest that your ratio would be 50/50 if neither party is feeling an imbalance and partnership is how you both view the relationship. It certainly sounds like that to me from what you've described.
More like a funky disco dance than a paso!
"Did it not occur to you that we "guys" that are missing the point might actually have been in these submissive situations more times than we care to count and we're well aware that most blokes can't handle the power ... (if we're to take your analogy literally, most men can't dance so why the hell subject yourself to having your toes stomped on repeatedly and endlessly?) You wanna know what submissive equates to for me? Getting to do the bulk of the housework ... "
Well hey, I'm talking about good relationships. If you want to talk about bad relationships that's a whole other topic. The fact that there's more lame guys in the world than cool guys in the world is completely apparent to me, though I'm still suggesting there's ways to help that, and it's not by women being bossy when women come home from a job where they're forced to be bossy, and it's not by continually cutting men down so there's nothing left but an ugly useless tree stump. I agree men have quite a ways to grow, and it's up to women to allow it as much as for men to do it.
In a good relationship I know that everything I said before is 100% spot on. In a good relationship women want (want, want) the men to be the dominant one so they can be the submissive one. How dominant depends on the woman, the ratio depends on the women. Very few women are happy with driving or even with 50/50. They would rather laugh with their girlfriends about "how well they are taken care of".
There's millions of examples of how this plays out in real life. Who's the one to walk up to meet first; the man, he walks up to the woman to start with. Who's the one to call on the phone; the man, most women insist they don't like calling guys and it's not their role. Who's the one who pays for the entertainment/dinner/coffee most of the time; the man, most women insist their role is to be entertained and courted. Who's the one to request who's hand in marriage; the man, he asks the woman, it's gotta be over 99% of women who cringe at the idea of asking a man to marry her. Who's the one who (in a good relationship, ok?) decides where to go out, when to go out, and how to go out; the man, using a lot of clues from the woman, he makes the plan and sets the plan and guides along the way, and most women insist that it's the man's role. Who's the one who plans the vacations in a relationship (in a good relationship, ok?), where to go and how to get there; the man, and nearly all women are very satisfied to let him do all the planning himself while giving their input or suggestion. Who's the one driving the car when the two of you are out going anywhere; the man, he's nearly always driving (unless the car is full of kids and even then he's usually driving), the woman would prefer to take the passenger seat. ...etc... What does the woman get to decide on? Everything that happens on a single day: the wedding day.
Last edited by ILikeSmartHippies; 05-03-2009 at 11:35 AM..
I hear you but disagree. My husband and I have been married for 13 years and have a great relationship. Some of what you say applies to us (for instance, he usually plans dates, and he usually drives), but some doesn't (for instance, I am planning our family's summer schedule, where we're going on vacation, where we'll stay and how much money we have to spend). I don't understand why you think that giving the woman one day to decide things is a "good relationship." Are you married, or have you been married? I seem to remember your talking a lot about how much you date.
Well, there you have it. It sounds like you are more of the planner/boss on the "big" things, and he is more of the planner/boss on the "day to day" things. If you add up all that, it sounds more lopsided than 50/50.
I know that everything I said before is 100% spot on. women want (want, want) the men to be the dominant one so they can be the submissive one. Very few women are happy with 50/50.
i basically stop listening to any one who has the arrogance to say "this is what women really want". They basically are saying all women are the same. How offensive, insulting, and condescending is that?
My non-respect goes even lower when the person also ignores, discounts, and belittles what real live women in real live relationships tell him about their own experiences.
Someone, anyone, who claims to know "what women really want" loses all credibility.
DimSum; I agree with your post and those of the previous posters.
The poster doesn't actually listen to any of the posts written by women in power balanced relationships.
He is conceited enough to always think he is right, and one of these people who considers himself an authority on the subject of women.
I was just wondering how many women out there can say that they are submissive in their relationship! To be honest I don't think I have ever seen a submissive women in a relationship...not even my own mother. SO I feel like I don't know how to be submissive. Most women I know don't want to play the role of the man in the relationship, but some just can't help but take control when they feel a need to. And most men feel that by nature a women is supposed to be submissive to them. This has caused a power struggle in many relationships and marriages. So how do you become submissive after years of not being that way? Any thoughts? And what about same sex couples...do they have this power struggle as well? Inquiring minds want to know!!
Golden Retrievers are submissive. Women are accomodating.
In my marriage, it's a matter of checks and balances. I accomodate my husbands needs, and he accomodates mine. Together, we have created harmony in our relationship because we recognize that there are areas of inevitable incompatibility between us, and we both make sure that we are willing to compromise and accomodate one another when necessary.
Our marriage isn't perfect (whose is?), but it's damned good. Of course, it's a second marriage for both of us, and we have the benefit of hindsight.
Being submissive to your spouse is demeaning. Being considerate and accomodating, is respectful.
Yeah, women have done a number on themselves as a whole. With the rise of feminism (of which some parts have been good) they've forced men to become more submissive than women (otherwise the man ends up accused of any number of things and even in really bad legal trouble!!). Then women wonder, wow, how do I even become submissive because all the female role models in my life are not, compared to their men? And why are all men so lame these days?? Without good role models I'm not sure women can become submissive. BTW this means becoming "more feminine" and not too many women seem to even know what this means.. (it doesn't mean being spacey new-age touchy-feely, either)
One piece of advice I can say.. maybe you won't believe this, though it's true.. since most men are beat-down by pretty much everyone, you gotta go easy at first, and let him learn to be more dominant over time. If you want to become more submissive then you need to encourage your man to make more decisions, and bite your tongue if you disagree. That means: "Time to go to dinner honey, where should we go?" and bite your tongue until he actually decides. When he DOES decide, then you have to reward this behavior: "Ohh, Crab Shack, how did you know I wanted that too! I love your pick!" Over time, if you continue biting your tongue on a variety of types of decisions (not alll the time mind you, if it really matters then speak up! Otherwise let THE MAN decide), then your man will again feel comfortable making decisions for both of you, and you will naturally feel more submissive because he's doing the work. Trouble is, most men are afraid to even offer an opinion these days, because they will get SMACKED DOWN.. by either their women, or their women's uncool men, or their women's friends, or their women's moms, or etc etc.... So men have just learned to "shut up and keep quiet and let her do the talking and deciding", which actually, most women hate and would prefer her man to take charge most of the time.
As for the guy perspective, it's tough these days because the woman goes to the office, she's got to deal with a bunch of ego's, and thus be "the man", and then come home and change roles, so it takes a strong guy these days to make the woman feel submissive (and not many men do). that's life for ya.. and I'm not even talking about sex here, I'm talking about general relationship stuff!
Women are still the submissive sex, dollar for dollar, they earn less money than men.
Well hey, I'm talking about good relationships. If you want to talk about bad relationships that's a whole other topic. The fact that there's more lame guys in the world than cool guys in the world is completely apparent to me, though I'm still suggesting there's ways to help that, and it's not by women being bossy when women come home from a job where they're forced to be bossy, and it's not by continually cutting men down so there's nothing left but an ugly useless tree stump. I agree men have quite a ways to grow, and it's up to women to allow it as much as for men to do it.
By your model it doesn't really matter what women will or won't allow because whether it works or not depends entirely on the good grace of the man involved. As far as I can see any relationship where one party dominates and expects submission from the other party is a bad relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeSmartHippies
In a good relationship I know that everything I said before is 100% spot on. In a good relationship women want (want, want) the men to be the dominant one so they can be the submissive one. How dominant depends on the woman, the ratio depends on the women. Very few women are happy with driving or even with 50/50. They would rather laugh with their girlfriends about "how well they are taken care of".
We've already established that everything you said before is NOT 100% spot on because most people in the thread have told you they're not interested in the woman being the subservient/submissive party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeSmartHippies
There's millions of examples of how this plays out in real life. Who's the one to walk up to meet first; the man, he walks up to the woman to start with. Who's the one to call on the phone; the man, most women insist they don't like calling guys and it's not their role. Who's the one who pays for the entertainment/dinner/coffee most of the time; the man, most women insist their role is to be entertained and courted. Who's the one to request who's hand in marriage; the man, he asks the woman, it's gotta be over 99% of women who cringe at the idea of asking a man to marry her. Who's the one who (in a good relationship, ok?) decides where to go out, when to go out, and how to go out; the man, using a lot of clues from the woman, he makes the plan and sets the plan and guides along the way, and most women insist that it's the man's role. Who's the one who plans the vacations in a relationship (in a good relationship, ok?), where to go and how to get there; the man, and nearly all women are very satisfied to let him do all the planning himself while giving their input or suggestion. Who's the one driving the car when the two of you are out going anywhere; the man, he's nearly always driving (unless the car is full of kids and even then he's usually driving), the woman would prefer to take the passenger seat. ...etc... What does the woman get to decide on? Everything that happens on a single day: the wedding day.
**shrug** I don't know any men or women in a relationship like you've just described.
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