Is "the other" just as responsible as the adulterer? (husband, kids)
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I was waiting for this. I knew it wouldn't be long before someone chimed and said "you don't know what it's like cause you've never been married." Sorry, but there are some things you don't need to be or have been married to understand. That would be like a father who beats his son telling me that because I don't have kids, I don't know know what it's like for him. Us folks living on the outside aren't living in an ivory tower. We just have morals, something that the people who cheat lack. In all the threads on this subject, I have yet to hear one good reason for why cheating is forgivable. When all other defenses fail, the defender usually resorts to the defense you just gave.
When all esle fails for you we get inundated with completely irrelevant and unrelated analogies. Marriages fail, couples have a change of heart, and some are stuck. I've known women who are so fearful of their husbands for what he will do to them if they try to leave, they are frozen in their marriage. It isn't easy for them to pick up and leave with kids, no money, and no one else to turn to, so they stay trapped in an abusive marriage. Perhaps at some point they decide that they are a flesh and blood human being with basic needs and seek the attention or affection of another man. While it's not ideal or up to YOUR moral standards, it's understandable and in my book forgiveable. But I'm not the one who has to forgive her, and neither are any of us. She has to live with her choices, not us, and I don't see where anyone has the right to judge her. Not unless that person is absolutely perfect in every way. Like I said, most of us don't live in a black and white world, and those who do are often the most angry and frustrated with the world around them.
[quote=si33;10475001]Denny is absolutely correct..and will get a rep..Cheating IS a black and white issue....
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Cheating is #3 on my top five most deplorable sins..right behind MURDER and MOLESTATION..and NO one should be attempting to rationalize the motive behind the behavior..People make the CHOICE to cheat..no one forces someone with a bf/gf/spouse to engage in behavior which is malicious and always planned out..
Wow, so you apply a rating system to other peoples sins huh, nice. Hoping to get promoted to the rank of Jesus?
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Most "cheaters" ive known willingly and intentionally went out and looked for opportunities to cheat.. for what ever lame reason(s) they would attempt to conjure up..It is the lowlife behavior of a Un-evolved, person who is weak and lacks both the moral compass and a sack of jewels..
Well that's not very Christ-like of you...
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Those who stand back and allow/accept such behavior are just about as bad as the actual person themselves..Why??..because they lack the where with all to stand up and put such a low life in their place..and make a clear statement that such behavior is completely unacceptable..no matter how long you have been best buds..
So you walk around all day pointing out people's sins and short comings...wow, I want you at my next party! Who appointed you the Sheriff of Moralityville?
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Think about if you were the one being cheated on..and everyone you knew just stood back..fully aware of what was happening.. Day to day you associate with these people..you laugh with them..share a meal with them..Trust them.. yet no one brought to your attention what was going on behing your back..that is grounds for a nose bleed as far as i am concerned..
Most people being cheated on know it, and don't need to be told. If you don't know your partner well enough to know something isn't right, then perhaps you missed a lot of other signs that he/she wasn't happy. I'm not saying it was ok for them to cheat, but you can't blame friends for wanting to stay neutral and not choose sides on the issue. If you are paying attention, you will eventually know that your spouse is cheating.
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only a P*&^^ can't tell it like it is..even if you have to part ways...due to a situation which cannot be fully resolved..
Tell that to the girl who lives in fear of being beaten or killed by her S.O. and has nowhere to turn, or hasn't found the strength within herself to leave. In a perfect world you can make those assumptions, not in the real world.
Why do you even care about this stuff? What is it to you?
Why do I care? Are you saying you don't care if people blame the victim of cheating? If you were cheated on and people said it was your fault, how would you feel?
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Originally Posted by MonaLisaVito
According to the holier than thou, people who have never committed a wrong in their life, things are only black and white for the issues that "THEY" find appalling, everything else is gray.
And according to the people with flexible morals, those of us who dare to have high standards are holier than thou. We don't pretend to be perfect. We don't claim to have never made a mistake.
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Originally Posted by si33
Those who stand back and allow/accept such behavior are just about as bad as the actual person themselves..Why??..because they lack the where with all to stand up and put such a low life in their place..and make a clear statement that such behavior is completely unacceptable..no matter how long you have been best buds..
Think about if you were the one being cheated on..and everyone you knew just stood back..fully aware of what was happening.. Day to day you associate with these people..you laugh with them..share a meal with them..Trust them.. yet no one brought to your attention what was going on behing your back..that is grounds for a nose bleed as far as i am concerned.
I agree. Too many people absolve themselves by saying "it's none of my business." Sorry, but that's pretty cowardly. If my friend was sleeping with a married woman and it wasn't an open marriage, I would condemn him. Likewise, if my friend was cheating on his partner, I wouldn't just look the other way. I'd rather be friends with people of good character than people with loose morals. Being friends with someone doesn't mean you lie for them. How could anyone look their friend's wife in the face knowing what her husband is doing behind her back?
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68
When all esle fails for you we get inundated with completely irrelevant and unrelated analogies. Marriages fail, couples have a change of heart, and some are stuck. I've known women who are so fearful of their husbands for what he will do to them if they try to leave, they are frozen in their marriage. It isn't easy for them to pick up and leave with kids, no money, and no one else to turn to, so they stay trapped in an abusive marriage. Perhaps at some point they decide that they are a flesh and blood human being with basic needs and seek the attention or affection of another man. While it's not ideal or up to YOUR moral standards, it's understandable and in my book forgiveable. But I'm not the one who has to forgive her, and neither are any of us. She has to live with her choices, not us, and I don't see where anyone has the right to judge her. Not unless that person is absolutely perfect in every way. Like I said, most of us don't live in a black and white world, and those who do are often the most angry and frustrated with the world around them.
One doesn't have to be perfect to judge someone else's behavior. If that were the standard, no one would ever be able to judge a person who murders or beats his wife. As for the woman you described, I would still judge her. She may feel trapped, but what does it say if she's too afraid to leave, but brave enough to risk getting caught with another man? And what kind of message does that send to her kids? Do you think it's good for kids to grow up thinking that if you're unhappy enough, you can cheat on your spouse?
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68
So you walk around all day pointing out people's sins and short comings...wow, I want you at my next party! Who appointed you the Sheriff of Moralityville?
If they're your friends, that gives you the right to judge. Even if they're not your friends, there are certain sins you have every right to condemn them for. I don't need to be friends or even know the guy who murders or beats his wife to be qualified to judge him.
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68
Most people being cheated on know it, and don't need to be told. If you don't know your partner well enough to know something isn't right, then perhaps you missed a lot of other signs that he/she wasn't happy. I'm not saying it was ok for them to cheat, but you can't blame friends for wanting to stay neutral and not choose sides on the issue. If you are paying attention, you will eventually know that your spouse is cheating.
Don't assume that. Many people neglect their spouses because they're too busy with their careers. They're so clueless to their spouse's unhappiness that they don't see what's wrong until it's too late. That's one reason cheating is so easy to get away with for some people. Others know their partner is unhappy and the see things that make them suspicious. But they don't know for sure if the person is cheating. And you're wrong. You can blame friends. If my friend was cheating on his wife and his wife found out that I was covering for him, I would absolutely expect her to blame me. And I would condemn my friend for ever putting me in such an awkward position in the first place. If he wants to cheat on his wife, I obviously can't stop him. But there's no way I'd lie for him or play dumb. Any friend who expects me to do that is a lousy friend.
And according to the people with flexible morals, those of us who dare to have high standards are holier than thou. We don't pretend to be perfect. We don't claim to have never made a mistake.
My ex broke his vows, even before he said them, at least in IMO. So how would that bode with you DennyCrane? I never dated any one else until after I left him, but "technically" we are still married. Due to circumstances, it could still be awhile before the marriage is dissolved. In your opinion, at what point is it okay to try to make ourselves happy despite the SO's lack of morality?
My ex broke his vows, even before he said them, at least in IMO. So how would that bode with you DennyCrane? I never dated any one else until after I left him, but "technically" we are still married. Due to circumstances, it could still be awhile before the marriage is dissolved. In your opinion, at what point is it okay to try to make ourselves happy despite the SO's lack of morality?
What you just described is being separated. If two people have split, then it means they both know the other person could potentially meet someone else. That's entirely different than cheating where one person still thinks the other person is being faithful.
IMHO and a very sensitive subject i am dancing on eggs
truth in lending and disclosure is very important in any contract.
only only good for once a month???? a pretty significant thing to leave out of the agreement.
americans are great at biz contracts
why are marriage contracts so poorly done and often so many breaches?
A marriage vow is not a contract to be negotiated. It's a pledge to stand by someone you, supposedly, love "for better or for worse" and I would assume that includes you want four times a week and they want once a month. Why do people think sex doesn't count in that part of the vow? No one would think about divorcing a spouse who became ill and unable to meet any of their needs but just let a spouse be on a different sexual timetable and, suddenly, all bets are off???
People act like sex is the only thing that counts. There is so much more to a person and a relationship besides sex. If sex were the be all end all, I would have divorced my husband long ago. He's quite happy with once a month. I'm more the four times a week type. Am I going to cheat over it? Divorce him over it? Nope. Nowhere in my wedding vows were the words "And Ivory gets EVERYTHING she wants or the marriage contract is null and void".
Yes, the person who knows they are involved with someone who is married is equally to blame. They are a good for nothing cheater and sinner. They should be ashamed.
What if they simply subscribe to a different moral code? I know more than one person who considers sex just recreational. Fortunately, they're married to spouses who think the same way. Why are they wrong?
It's only wrong if YOU pledged not to to someone else. The OW/OM may or may not be a sinner based on their own moral code. You don't get to pick their moral code for them.
I'm not a swinger and not about to become one but know someone who has lived this way for years. I had another friend who had an open marriage, years ago, but hers kind of blew up when she got pregnant and had no idea who the father was. Her husband decided he did not want to be responsible for a child that wasn't his (they had agreed to remain childless so it had more to do with having kids than whose kid it was I'm sure).
However, the point is, it's only wrong if YOUR moral code says it's wrong. Others may not see it that way. They did not take a pledge. The adulterer did. They are, definitely, in the wrong.
When an SO (spouse, bf/gf, etc.) has a wandering eye and decides to cheat, do both parties in the affair share an equal amount of blame?
For example: Jane is married and Jon is single. Jane has an affair with Jon. Jane will obviously be branded as an adultress, but what about Jon? What's his part in all of this?
I had a friend say that Jon did not take the vows, so he shouldn't be held accountable. What do you think?
The "cheat" is the one that is cheating. People that purposely start up relationships with married people probably deserve what they get, but I don't hold them responsible for the affair.
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Who appointed you the Sheriff of Moralityville?
Her husband decided he did not want to be responsible for a child that wasn't his (they had agreed to remain childless so it had more to do with having kids than whose kid it was I'm sure).
