Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I know that this mere title will already anger most if not all women here and displease many men as well. I'll share my views at the end of this post.
Anyway...
I'm talking to John after what had been several months of us not hanging out. John is married with 3 kids. So as we catch up over food, John tells me that his brother-in-law David is doing well. In fact, too well.
David is a successful, very financially well-off professional. He recently bought, renovated, and moved into a large, beautiful house in an upper-middle-class suburb in the region. He has two lovely young children, a great wife. He's his own boss and does what he wants. Because of his high income, his arrangement with his wife is traditional. He's the breadwinner, she's the-stay-at-home homemaker/housewife. And it works for them.
Apparently, it works for David better than it does for David's wife.
David has one weekday off from work during which he is always out with his wife while the kids are at school. Additionally, John told me, David hangs out with his buddies 3 times a week, and Friday, Saturday, and Sunday are reserved for children and/or the wife.
Now here's the thing. David has a girlfriend on the side.
John asked me to keep my mouth shut, and I will, as I'm no more than an acquaintance of David.
One time, John, David, and one of David's friends had a midweek dinner. They then went to an expensive bar. David's cell phone would not stop ringing. But it wasn't David's wife.
David asked the boys, "you guys mind if my friend comes?" They said, "sure."
They expected another man, another married man with children. What they did not expect was a mid-20s single woman.
Apparently, this is not a new development. John told me that following a night out in the fall of 2008 (yes, 2008) in which I took part, David got into hot water with his wife. At that time, a fourth man, Kevin, came out. Kevin is very close to John and friends with David.
Not long after that night out, there was a married folks-dinner. Kevin's wife innocently remarked to David's wife that David was fortunate for having such a good, kind, and tolerant wife. Kevin's wife meant it as a compliment, but David's wife, ever suspicious, assumed Kevin's wife knew of something amiss, and went ballistic on David - without telling David exactly what Kevin's wife had said. David had to call Kevin, and Kevin had to speak to his wife, to calm the storm. If I'm not mistaken, Kevin made his wife speak to David's wife to clear up the incident.
It was, in this instance, an innocent misunderstanding, but David freaked out because he was already involved in an extramarital relationship.
I told John, "John, I'm not going to judge David, but what he is doing is not good. If David's wife had a boyfriend on the side whom she was seeing when she went out ostensibly to meet her GFs and was sleeping with him, David would kill her. This is just not right, and it's not fair to David's wife."
John agreed - but the impression I got was that John thought David was living a good life, almost to the point John envied David. I, in fact, do not put John above doing what David is doing, and am almost convinced John has committed adultery in the past.
Things like this make me wonder why married men do this. Why get married, why swear loyalty if you're going to have an affair spanning months, years, with a woman over 10 years your junior while your wife maintains the household and does a solid job of rearing the children?
(Ironically, folks, John's wife/David's sister is also extremely suspicious, but she's nowhere as opposed to this type of ribaldry if her brother is the one committing it; if it were John, John's wife/David's sister would kill John.)
I don't know why you thought the title of the post would make anyone angry, Sprawling. I can't speak for others, but to me, a title like this is about as rage-inducing as "John Doe has cancer" would be.
There are many reasons why people cheat. Some just aren't made for monogamy and want multiple sexual partners. Some like the thrill of the forbidden. Some have been abandoned, sexually and emotionally, by their spouses, but don't have the strength to go through a divorce. Some are nursing a grudge against their spouses and enjoy the betrayal. And some are simply narcissists -- which is what bedding a younger version of one's wife is all about.
But mostly, married people who cheat do so because the marriage has lost its value for them. I think Schopenhauer had a point when he wrote that to marry is to halve one's rights and to double one's responsibilities. You get something in return, of course, but the value of that "something" can change over time. If this David is a rational person, he has to realize that no matter how careful he is, cheating always has the possibility of being uncovered -- ALWAYS. And from what you wrote, it doesn't seem he is too careful, anyway. The fact that he cheats simply shows that he is willing to undertake the risk of deeply, deeply hurting his wife. If such a risk were unacceptable, he wouldn't cheat despite being attracted to young girls.
The effect of cheating on the innocent spouse is devastating. If David is willing to subject his wife to this possibility, it's a clear indication that he doesn't love her. Sure, he may not hate her, and he probably appreciates the comforts that she provides -- but he wouldn't mind throwing her under the bus, either.
I don't understand why David would invite his mistress to hang out with his friends or do anything in public, especially when his wife is already suspicious. It sounds like he wants to get caught.
I don't understand why David would invite his mistress to hang out with his friends or do anything in public, especially when his wife is already suspicious. It sounds like he wants to get caught.
This occurred to me as well. Some people have affairs in order to have a catalyst to end the marriage.
I don't know why you thought the title of the post would make anyone angry, Sprawling. I can't speak for others, but to me, a title like this is about as rage-inducing as "John Doe has cancer" would be.
There are many reasons why people cheat. Some just aren't made for monogamy and want multiple sexual partners. Some like the thrill of the forbidden. Some have been abandoned, sexually and emotionally, by their spouses, but don't have the strength to go through a divorce. Some are nursing a grudge against their spouses and enjoy the betrayal. And some are simply narcissists -- which is what bedding a younger version of one's wife is all about.
But mostly, married people who cheat do so because the marriage has lost its value for them. I think Schopenhauer had a point when he wrote that to marry is to halve one's rights and to double one's responsibilities. You get something in return, of course, but the value of that "something" can change over time. If this David is a rational person, he has to realize that no matter how careful he is, cheating always has the possibility of being uncovered -- ALWAYS. And from what you wrote, it doesn't seem he is too careful, anyway. The fact that he cheats simply shows that he is willing to undertake the risk of deeply, deeply hurting his wife. If such a risk were unacceptable, he wouldn't cheat despite being attracted to young girls.
The effect of cheating on the innocent spouse is devastating. If David is willing to subject his wife to this possibility, it's a clear indication that he doesn't love her. Sure, he may not hate her, and he probably appreciates the comforts that she provides -- but he wouldn't mind throwing her under the bus, either.
I happen to be a believer in the sanctity of the marriage bed, Redisca. What one does while still single and unmarried (and not w/ a BF/GF or fiance) is one's choice; but, once a man or a woman has committed to matrimony, he/she is bound by honor to observe that commitment.
I disagree with none of what you stated regarding the motivations of adulterers; I did, however, think that there are folks on this forum who would disapprove not only of David's ribaldry but also of his hypocrisy (that he would react rather violently were his wife to engage in adultery as well).
Now, I am aware that after childbirth, a woman's body will change; and, that the toils and travails of child-rearing can sap a person's energy. David's wife is in her mid-30s, so she's not an old maid. But I imagine she's got a lot on her hands.
As to your claim David doesn't love her - I wonder what men who have cheated or who would understand a cheater would say. Way too often I've heard that a man is capable of sex without any emotional attachment. Even I believe that, to be frank. But even if this is what David is doing, I still disagree - for the very reason you pointed out. David's wife may end up devastated.
I will also say that this young woman's conduct is reproachable and reprehensible. John didn't specify whether she is aware David is married; however, if this has been going on for nearly 2 years, I would speculate she knows by now. Why else would he have to limit her to certain days of the week? Women who are willing, active participants in immoral relationships are to be condemned as well.
I am just trying to understand why these men think it's all right for them to cheat - but not for their wives to do so. Some, like John, say that I'll see why this occurs when/if I get married, and that the lack of marital experience colors my conclusions. Perhaps. But still, I cannot help but really feel bad for David's wife. "Unfair" is not enough to describe it.
I don't understand why David would invite his mistress to hang out with his friends or do anything in public, especially when his wife is already suspicious. It sounds like he wants to get caught.
Apparently David thinks his brother-in-law and the other friend can be trusted. From what I know, David's gamble has paid off so far, because his wife does not know (yet).
As to your claim David doesn't love her - I wonder what men who have cheated or who would understand a cheater would say. Way too often I've heard that a man is capable of sex without any emotional attachment. Even I believe that, to be frank. But even if this is what David is doing, I still disagree - for the very reason you pointed out. David's wife may end up devastated.
Well, yeah, anybody can have sex without an emotional attachment. But love is more than mere emotional attachment, and it manifests itself, among other things, in a person's willingness to sacrifice his urges to the sake of the loved one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner
I am just trying to understand why these men think it's all right for them to cheat - but not for their wives to do so. Some, like John, say that I'll see why this occurs when/if I get married, and that the lack of marital experience colors my conclusions. Perhaps. But still, I cannot help but really feel bad for David's wife. "Unfair" is not enough to describe it.
People have endless powers of rationalization. He may believe that he is already doing enough for his wife by supporting her and "giving her" a fine home and children. Or maybe he doesn't necessarily think "it's all right", but simply doesn't care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner
Apparently David thinks his brother-in-law and the other friend can be trusted. From what I know, David's gamble has paid off so far, because his wife does not know (yet).
Then the man is just stupid. Sorry, but for all that male bonding, "bros before hos" nonsense, men do gossip. Often with their wives or girlfriends. Or with other men, who tell their wives or girlfriends. You get 3 or 4 guys in the room, there is a pretty good chance at least one of them will whisper something to someone else, and from there, it is sure as hell to get back to his wife.
Apparently David thinks his brother-in-law and the other friend can be trusted. From what I know, David's gamble has paid off so far, because his wife does not know (yet).
Well, David is dumb, but you already knew that. It just takes one person to see him with his girlfriend, one person who knows him and his wife--one of his kids' teachers could have been at that bar, or a neighbor. Or if he's handsome and dashing enough, the waitress who brought them drinks remembers his face, then does a double-take when she sees him with a different woman at the park with his kids. It just takes one person with a look of confusion when he or she is introduced to the wife, remembering David with a different woman leaving a bar or hotel together.
I can't imagine living that kind of lie. Trying to cover all your tracks at all times must be exhausting, and most people just aren't that smart.
I despise men (and women) who do this... nor do I buy any of the excuses given. Either be honest about what you want/need and come to some sort of agreement, or let your partner go rather than stabbing a knife into their back with every lie, deceit and betrayal.
I'm sorry, but there just is no excuse for cheating like this... none... and to be honest, I don't have much respect for those friends and family who condone this kind of behavior with their silence. I don't stay friends with, or connected to, those who expect me to keep their betrayal a secret. I've walked away from friends and family who let me know they were getting "a little sumpin' sumpin'" on the side and thought I'd still hang out with them while their spouse or SO was completely clueless as to what was going on.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
