Is Circumcision an American Christian Tradition? (Jerusalem, Catholic, Christianity, Christians)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
His disciples said to him [Jesus], "is circumcision useful or not?" He [Jesus] said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect. -Thomas 53
I never said it was, as it obviously isn't, and also why I prefaced it as, "For the more broad-minded..." Thomas is, however, legitimate. Possibly slightly older than Matthew and Mark, perhaps slightly newer. Thomas may not have been included in the canon for a number of reasons including the possiblity that it was lost before the Council of Nicea in 325. Either way, Thomas is very old and if it is not pseudopigraphal, then it is the only testament given to us by an apostle. While it shares material with the three synoptic gospels, Thomas appears to have been written independently of them, possibly before them. It is unique in that it is simply a collection of the sayings of Jesus; as if someone was following him around and thinking, 'Oh that's good! I've got to write that down!'
I don't limit my search for Jesus simply to the canonical books.
Last edited by Jason_Els; 08-09-2007 at 04:25 PM..
If his problem was phimosis then it's easily treatable with cortisol creme and simple manual stretches. Circumcision is pretty much unheard of for phimosis in the rest of the world.
Regardless, I'll stick to what I know, which is...
#1. It IS more difficult to keep clean, it is a statistical fact (info from dad's doc) that more uncircumsized males have "issues" than circumsized.
You do realize that this is just because of what you're used to seeing, right? And that as more and more boys are not circumcised, it will be the circumcised ones that look odd?
We have three boys, all of whom are intact. The very idea of circumcision horrifies and bewilders them. They just don't understand it. Odds are, they will not ever need to be circumcised. If they do need it, at least they will be old enough to understand. It will also be safer to medicate them when they are older than if they were newborns.
And I just don't buy the argument that newborns don't feel pain. We certainly don't think of any other part of a newborn as being more immune to pain than a bigger person. If anything, we view them as more fragile. Why should the penis be any different?
You do realize that this is just because of what you're used to seeing, right? And that as more and more boys are not circumcised, it will be the circumcised ones that look odd?
We have three boys, all of whom are intact. The very idea of circumcision horrifies and bewilders them. They just don't understand it. Odds are, they will not ever need to be circumcised. If they do need it, at least they will be old enough to understand. It will also be safer to medicate them when they are older than if they were newborns.
And I just don't buy the argument that newborns don't feel pain. We certainly don't think of any other part of a newborn as being more immune to pain than a bigger person. If anything, we view them as more fragile. Why should the penis be any different?
Regardless, I'll stick to what I know, which is...
#1. It IS more difficult to keep clean, it is a statistical fact (info from dad's doc) that more uncircumsized males have "issues" than circumsized.
#2. It look flippin' wierd! LOL...
It's no more difficult than retracting the skin and washing underneath during regular bathing. The female labia produces more smegma than the male foreskin and you don't see us running around cutting off labias.
It depends on what the issues are. Circumcision has numerous complications including the fact that a circumcised penis doesn't form a seal around the vagina preventing natural lubricants from escaping. Look at the rates of circumcision and how they correlate to sales of personal lubricant in countries that circumcise and those that don't. Sales of personal lubricant are higher in circumcising countries (Iowa Law Review 5/2000).
Your doctor is, like many out there, sadly uninformed about the risks potential complication. Circumcised males do have more complications than males who left intact as were enumerated in Rosemary Romberg's book, Circumcision: The Painful Dilemma, and Complications of Circumcision -(British Journal of Urology 10/93):
Quote:
Although haemorrhage and sepsis are the main causes of morbidity, the variety of complications is enormous. The literature abounds with reports of morbidity and even death as a result of circumcision.
Some authors have reported a complication rate as low as 0.06 per cent, while at the other extreme rates of up to 55 per cent have been quoted. This reflects the differing and varying diagnostic criteria employed; a realistic figure is 2-10 per cent-Ibid.
Three quarters of the world's males are not circumcised and will never need circumcision. Phimosis, recurring yeast infection, balanitis, and other maladies of the penis can be cured using techniques which American doctors are generally not familiar with because most of them have never had to treat intact males. Like we used to do with tonsils, we just lop off the problem like it was the 19th century. American physicians are routinely surprised when their European and Asian counterparts tell them they've never had to perform a circumcision for the same problems we use circumcision to cure.
Some males who are circumcised as adolescents or adults are very pleased with the results, some are not. If your dad is happy with the results, then great. At least he was given an option as an adult, hopefully had the risks and benefits explained to him, and anesethetized (though with HMOs these days... ). What an adult does electively with his or her body is up to that person. I would like us to extend that same right to our children as well.
The weirdness thing is just a matter of cultural perception. We think it's weird because many Americans don't see intact males. We think the abnormal is normal. Guess how strange circumcised men appear to the rest of the world?
idiots running around crying about how their foreskin was stolen from them and they want it back.
Honest to god, I feel as though I can barely type...(LOL!!!) For two years running, I ran a therapy group that was focused on issues around loss, but this is a new one to me...
Regardless, I'll stick to what I know, which is...
#2. It look flippin' wierd! LOL...
This made me think of a conversation at work the other day. It was suggested that, since we are "exposed" to more and more augmented breasts, that soon, natural breasts will look "flippin' wierd", (if not already). Interesting, isn't it, that you consider a penis in its natural state wierd, and consider an augmented one to look normal.
FYI guys, my dad had to get circumsized in his 40's because of pre-cancerous growths and he could never keep it clean enough, I guess. The pain was incredible and the data I saw was quite convincing.
As to the look, trust me, it's quite common here in America to think uncirc looks funny. It just does, yes I know uncirc is natural, but so is not shaving your face and not using deodorant or ....???
FYI guys, my dad had to get circumsized in his 40's because of pre-cancerous growths and he could never keep it clean enough, I guess. The pain was incredible and the data I saw was quite convincing.
As to the look, trust me, it's quite common here in America to think uncirc looks funny. It just does, yes I know uncirc is natural, but so is not shaving your face and not using deodorant or ....???
whats deodorant?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). What an adult does electively with his or her body is up to that person. I would like us to extend that same right to our children as well.
