Circumcision and religion (genesis, America, church, priests)
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This article (CBS link at bottom) says that a study shows that circumcision is declining in the U.S. And then it goes on to cite health reasons why that's not good.
Circumcision was originally performed on males as a religious rite.
Quote:
Religious male circumcision generally occurs shortly after birth, during childhood or around puberty as part of a rite of passage. Circumcision is most prevalent in the religions of Judaism and Islam, and as such is most common in Muslim countries and Israel. In addition to religious reasons circumcision has been practiced for health, hygiene and aesthetic reasons. The practice is also widely practiced in some predominantly Christian areas such as the United States, the Philippines, South Korea, Ethiopia, Kenya and West Africa, as well as among Christians in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine and Israel. Circumcision was also practiced by some Native American tribes and it is also common in several African tribal groups. It is less common in Europe and Latin America, though practised in the large Muslim population in India and among some Indian Christians, depending on region and family background. Circumcision for medical reasons is quite widely performed in China and Japan, being the largest single medical procedure performed in both countries, but religious circumcision in each is comparatively rare, and largely confined to Muslim communities[citation needed]. Hodges argues that in Ancient Greece the foreskin was valued and that Greek and Roman attempts to abolish ritual circumcision were prompted by humanitarian concerns.[1]
Male circumcision practised as a religious rite is found in texts of the Hebrew Bible, as part of the Abrahamic covenant, such as in Genesis 17, and is therefore practised by Jews and Muslims and some Christians, who constitute the Abrahamic religions. Some rabbinical sources indicate that even before the covenant of Abraham, the aposthia of Shem may have been an inspiration for circumcision; though the aposthia of Shem is not specifically mentioned in the Genesis text.[2][3]
In Genesis God puts forth the requirement for his males to have their thingies cut. Does that mean that if you are not trimmed you won't get into heaven?
If this article in the link below is correct, do you think this is indicative of a greater secularization in the country or just something else?
I think it's a combination of things: secularism, people understanding their religion differently, people taking an active role in medical decisions, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezlie
In Genesis God puts forth the requirement for his males to have their thingies cut. Does that mean that if you are not trimmed you won't get into heaven?
The requirement is for Jewish males to be circumcised as a sign of our Covenant with God. It has nothing to do with humanity as a whole or with "heaven".
This article (CBS link at bottom) says that a study shows that circumcision is declining in the U.S. And then it goes on to cite health reasons why that's not good.
Circumcision was originally performed on males as a religious rite.
If this article in the link below is correct, do you think this is indicative of a greater secularization in the country or just something else?
It is not a tenet of Christianity. The only 2 religions in the USA that have mandatory circumcision are Judaism and Islam. Combined we do not make up much of the population, perhaps 10% of the population..
The question should be "Why was it ever common place in the USA?" Only about 10% of the USA has a religious reason for it.
It is not a tenet of Christianity. The only 2 religions in the USA that have mandatory circumcision are Judaism and Islam. Combined we do not make up much of the population, perhaps 10% of the population..
The question should be "Why was it ever common place in the USA?" Only about 10% of the USA has a religious reason for it.
I don't know about the 10%, but here is why it was first advocated in the U.S.
Quote:
Non-religious circumcision in English-speaking countries arose in a climate of negative attitudes towards sex, especially concerning masturbation. In her 1978 article The Ritual of Circumcision,[42] Karen Erickson Paige writes: "In the United States, the current medical rationale for circumcision developed after the operation was in wide practice. The original reason for the surgical removal of the foreskin, or prepuce, was to control 'masturbatory insanity' – the range of mental disorders that people believed were caused by the 'polluting' practice of 'self-abuse.'"
This anti-masturbation sentiment at the time, do you think maybe religious anti-sex attitudes may have had something to do with it? Why have religions always been so anti-sex?
I don't know about the 10%, but here is why it was first advocated in the U.S.
This anti-masturbation sentiment at the time, do you think maybe religious anti-sex attitudes may have had something to do with it? Why have religions always been so anti-sex?
Very few religions have been anti-sex but nearly all have set limits as to who can be sex partners. Typically limited only to those who are "Married" in the concept of the faith.
Very few religions have been anti-sex but nearly all have set limits as to who can be sex partners. Typically limited only to those who are "Married" in the concept of the faith.
I'm sorry, but the overriding implication among many Christians is that sex is bad - more so probably among mature/older people than in younger people/children just because (I truly hope) the tide is finally turning on this attitude. But it really does boil down to that, no matter how carefully it's couched. Many, many "sins" are based on what feels good and/or appears selfish in some way.
Just think about how many people have very messed-up images of sex being dirty, etc. and having trouble reconciling that when they come to sexual maturity. This belief messes with relationships, it messes with marriages because logic notwithstanding, it's in there, deep. How many kids think their parts are "dirty" and "gross"? I hope far fewer today, but certainly when I was growing up, sexual pleasure, whether alone or with another person, was VERY frowned upon by the more religious, and was taken much more naturally by the less religious or non religious.
In Catholicism specifically, who's the purest of them all? Priests and nuns, the celibate ones. NO sex is HIGHLY celebrated as a very high calling and part of what brings one closer to God in some forms of Christianity. Celibacy is not the only quality of being a priest or a nun, of course, but it is absolutely prohibited as if a mere brush at one's genitals will immediately snip the cord from the perpetrator to God. Apparently they're then supposed to go "confess" it. Can you just imagine having to confess every time you masturbated? Many men I know would never leave the church at all. They'd just get in the back of the line to the confessional booth and by the time their turn was up again they'd have something to confess again. (Just kidding. Sort of.)
And no matter how gently "confession" is received, even possibly including an understanding attitude, come on, if you have to confess it at all, the implication is there that it is/was bad.
In the OT, Onan really gets his for having "spilled his seed on the ground." Having known a lot of Jews, they tend to take it as: the sin was in not utilizing the sperm to procreate. Having also known a lot of Christians, the more apt mindset is that the masturbation itself was the sinful, absolutely horrifying thing. There is also the intimation that it was sex just for pleasure (he could obviously have refrained from the sex altogether, rather than engaging in coitus interruptus) and that therefore sex just for pleasure is a horrible thing.
There IS a tie-in here, I can't see how that can even be debated.
Again, as I said, I believe (and hope) that this has been changing in recent decades, overall - not among the religious specifically, but overall.
An uncircumcised male has a very minor amount of additional personal hygiene to attend to, and if that is done, I don't see a medical downside to not being circumcised. My son and stepson are not circumcised; my current wife and I were not together when those decisions were taken but we had similar reasons. Although I don't simplistically think that everything au naturele is always best, I do lean that way in most things, and, I consider circumcision to be a form of mutilation.
A much-overlooked fact is that the removed tissue is very sensitive and circumcision does interfere with sexual pleasure and control. I personally regret being circumcised and am glad I spared my son the procedure.
I don't know about the 10%, but here is why it was first advocated in the U.S.
This anti-masturbation sentiment at the time, do you think maybe religious anti-sex attitudes may have had something to do with it? Why have religions always been so anti-sex?
Yes, I do think religious anti-sex attitudes have a lot to do with it. Corinthians 1:6-9 is a biblical verse that was used for centuries to condemn masturbation. It was only in the late 1940's that 2 Greek words were translated as "homosexuals" in a number of English versions and the condemnation shifted to homosexuals instead. Of course Masters and Johnson may have had something to do with masturbation being seen as normal, healthy and commonplace.
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