Atheists should be neither seen nor heard... (churches, agnostics, worship)
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"If you follow the atheism debates in op-ed pieces and whatnot, you'll see that critiques of the so-called New Atheist movement are often aimed at our tone. Among the pundits and opinion-makers, atheist writers and activists are typically called out for being offensive, intolerant, disrespectful, extremist, hostile, confrontational, and just generally asshats.
The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks. And if these op-ed pieces and whatnot were all you knew about the atheist movement and the critiques of it, you might think that atheists were simply being asked to be reasonable, civil, and polite."
I am of the belief that all should be heard and not everyone's opinion is equally valuable to any conversation or discussion, it gives us all a better overall understanding of how things work. This is the way it should be and yes sometimes in order to be heard one must speak loudly and unfortunately it is many times interpreted the wrong way even when it's done with respect.
I think there is a time and place for everyone to be heard and there is a time and place when everyone should keep their beliefs to themselves.
Scenarios where it's okay for ANYONE to mention their beliefs:
1. Sites or forums specifically devoted to religious discussion, like the CD Religion and Philosophy forum, Christian sites, atheist sites, or religion sites.
2. In relationships where all people involved decide that religion is relevant, for example, if it's important to you that your SO share your religious beliefs, it's important to bring this up before getting serious. In friendships where you want to have someone to talk to about your beliefs.
3. Participating in any religious-affiliated activities like worship, youth group, study groups.
Scenarios where it's NOT okay for ANYONE to mention their beliefs:
1. To random strangers on the street, in the bus, or any public place that is intended to be open for all.
2. Job interviews, college essays, and other professional settings (the only exception being if you're applying for a position that is by definition religious-affliliated, e.g. ministerial school, Rabbi, teacher at a religious-affiliated school, etc.)
3. Especially any space that specifically states religious and political neutrality (in the U.S this includes any government buildings, organizations like the Red Cross, and public school).
Standards like the examples mentioned above should apply to everyone equally. It doesn't matter what your beliefs happen to be. Even if part of your belief include "spreading the message," that should be done only in designated spaces, or with the express invitation of others. So, for example, inviting people to a church event is appropriate. If you knock on people's doors (not recommended), then it's reasonable to only pursue religious discussion once invited to do so and to not insist if you have not been invited to do so.
It plays out very clearly here on CD. A believer can post all day long about there being a god in the A&A area, yet posting there is no god in the "C" area usually is deleted.
The fear of reason is clearly palpable amongst believers. They also fear the retribution of a vengeful god. They have clearly boxed themselves into a quandary ain't they.
"If you follow the atheism debates in op-ed pieces and whatnot, you'll see that critiques of the so-called New Atheist movement are often aimed at our tone. Among the pundits and opinion-makers, atheist writers and activists are typically called out for being offensive, intolerant, disrespectful, extremist, hostile, confrontational, and just generally asshats.
The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks. And if these op-ed pieces and whatnot were all you knew about the atheist movement and the critiques of it, you might think that atheists were simply being asked to be reasonable, civil, and polite."
Though that ^^^ does describe you well...I am in great fear of any mitigation of the discourse in any way.
What the heck am I supposed to do for amusement during the lag time at work if you guys don't continue to speak out?!!
I think there is a time and place for everyone to be heard and there is a time and place when everyone should keep their beliefs to themselves.
Did you read the linked article? It's specifically talking about being visible, not going up to people's doors, or into their churches, etc. A good example they gave was the Atheist Vuvuzela Band in Texas recently, where they were in a Christmas parade playing Jingle Bells on vuvuzelas, yelling Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/Happy Hannukah/Happy Kwanzaa. They were doing absolutely nothing offensive, and yet simply because their banner identified them as the atheists, stupid people got their panties in a twist and started whining about how atheists should be banned from Christmas parades.
Christians have a terribly biased double standard.
Did you read the linked article? It's specifically talking about being visible, not going up to people's doors, or into their churches, etc. A good example they gave was the Atheist Vuvuzela Band in Texas recently, where they were in a Christmas parade playing Jingle Bells on vuvuzelas, yelling Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/Happy Hannukah/Happy Kwanzaa. They were doing absolutely nothing offensive, and yet simply because their banner identified them as the atheists, stupid people got their panties in a twist and started whining about how atheists should be banned from Christmas parades.
Christians have a terribly biased double standard.
Yes, and my post is what I believe needs to be done in order to eliminate that double standard. Christians, atheists, and anyone with any other belief should all be held to the same standards. If Christians can do it in situation X, so too should atheists be able to do it. And if Christians shouldn't be doing it in situation Y, then nor should atheists.
Did you read the linked article? It's specifically talking about being visible, not going up to people's doors, or into their churches, etc. A good example they gave was the Atheist Vuvuzela Band in Texas recently, where they were in a Christmas parade playing Jingle Bells on vuvuzelas, yelling Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/Happy Hannukah/Happy Kwanzaa. They were doing absolutely nothing offensive, and yet simply because their banner identified them as the atheists, stupid people got their panties in a twist and started whining about how atheists should be banned from Christmas parades.
Christians have a terribly biased double standard.
I am an old-school atheist (note the little "a") and I too find neo-Atheists to be incredibly annoying.
Neo-Atheists marched in that Christmas parade to prove a point; me being old school, I don't feel I have anything to prove. Marching in a parade celebrating something that didn't even happen is a waste of a precious day off.
Neo atheists get angry when they see a nativity scene. For me, a nativity scene has the same effect as a scene featuring Santa and his reindeer: it's all fiction, what the F is the diff?
I don't hang around with atheists, I don't have lengthy discussions about atheism. I decided that the Tooth Fairy wasn't real when I was 8, and I never needed a support group once the decision was made. Neo-atheists are grown ups yet feel the need to sit around talking about what they don't believe... seems like a waste of time.
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