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Yes and your article suggested that this was mainly due to negative birth rates in diaspora and positive birth rates with the extremists in Israel. That does not suggest a migration unless procreation has a new definition.
Your claims fail time and again in this regard as it is NOT happening
Read your link
Migration: An Insignificant Factor
Shifts in the distribution of world Jewry were barely influenced by international migration, as Jews left Israel and came to live in their old-new homeland in nearly equal numbers.
JPPPI reported that 2006 saw the highest number of Jewish births ever recorded in the country (104,000). The Israeli birthrate, while still high compared to most of the West, is affected by the high birthrate of the Hareidi-religious population of Israel. According to JPPPI, Hareidi women have an average of 4.7 children, compared to 2.7 for the general Israeli Jewish population and 1.1 for Jewish women in the Diaspora.
first off you can't just compare Aliyah (migration to Israel) with yoreda (emigration from Israel) without ALSO including returning Yordim (not trivial esp in years when the Israeli economy is stronger than the north american economy).
second, its hardly like haredim only live in Israel. They now make up close to the majority the Jews of manchester UK, and will soon be a majority of UK Jews. They are also a growing portion of US and Canadian Jews.
Israel continues to receive Olim from North America, from western europe (esp France recently) and on and off from Ethiopia. And still some from FSU. AFAICT the only significant flow of yordim is to North america, and they often go back.
None of which is necessarilly messianic or anything.
"* The Israel Central Bureau of Statistics created their most recent population projection to 2010 with the assumption that 6,600 Jewish Israelis per year will leave the country. The United States currently accepts about 4 thousand immigrants a year from Israel, of whom 3000 to 3500 are Jewish. Pini Herman estimates that about two-thirds of all Israeli emigrants currently migrate to the U.S. and an additional one-sixth of Israeli emigrants settle in Canada for a total of four-fifths of Israeli emigrants settling in the U.S. and Canada."
The fact is they have to keep up with their Palestinian neighbors who are outbreeding them. I even saw a couple with 5 kids and one on the way that stated that is why they are having so many children on a TV interview.
Haredim in america have just as many children. Dont use TV as the basis for your view of the world.
"will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
He will raise a flag among the nations for Israel to rally around. He will gather the scattered people of Judah from the ends of the earth. Isaiah 11:12 Do not be afraid, for I am with you. I will gather you and your children from east and west and from north and south. I will bring my sons and daughters back to Israel from the distant corners of the earth. All who claim me as their God will come, for I have made them for my glory. It was I who created them. Isaiah 43:5-7
But the time is coming,’ says the Lord, ‘when people who are taking an oath will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who rescued the people of Israel from the land of Egypt.’ Instead, they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the people of Israel back to their own land from the land of the north and from all the countries to which he had exiled them.’ For I will bring them back to this land that I gave their ancestors. Jeremiah 16:14-15
I will end your captivity and restore your fortunes. I will gather you out of the nations where I sent you and bring you home again to your own land. Jeremiah 29:14 "
I dont see the issue here. Does a miracle have to involve lights and smoke and cecil b de mille?
Its enough of a miracle for me (and I guarantee you I know a hundred times as much about the actual historical mechanisms by which it happened as this campell does).
Somewhere, in Poland, in 1922, a Jewish human being, often a secular Jewish human being, who could have given in to despair turned his heart towards Zion and joined the chalutzim. That miracle has been repeated in many Jewish hearts for the last 130 years. I look for no other miracles than the miracles of the heart.
No you keep telling everyone that the Jews are all going to return to Israel as some form of prophetic fulfillment and it is not so. Now you want to tell us based on your link that in 2020 there will be more Jews in Israel than elsewhere. No problem but be at least honest and state this is due to attrition aka higher birth rates as your link states.
Not that it matters anyway as 53% of Jews are non religious. Furthermore, the ones breeding more are in the minority at present so they are on a mission of sexing themselves into power.
It will not work as the kids will have to go elsewhere to make a life for themselves, Israel can only support so much, it has no natural resources to sustain a growing population.
What is likely to happen they will try annex more Arabic lands and that will inevitably lead to another huge war. Bear in mind the UN, NATO and Russia will not allow this to happen and they will get their a**es royally kicked again. Even the US would likely withdraw support if Jewish extremists came into power.
Just let them try demolish the dome of the rock and see what happens.
first off most secular israelis believe in god, and many light shabbos candles. most attend services on Yom Kippur, and almost all light chanukah candles. "secular" in an Israeli context does not mean QUITE what it means here.
natural resources? huh? Most of the worlds economy is based on services, high technology, etc. The fastest growing economies in east asia are not based on natural resources. Israel has had strong economic growth based on high tech - natural resources really arent an issue.
And israel has NEVER set out to conquer arab lands since after it gained independence. 1967 was a defensive war. And Israel has withdrawn from the majority of those lands. And most of the lands from that war it still occupies - in the West Bank - are economically controlled by the PA, not by Israel.
No it does not say the jews will migrate. It say he will GATHER them out of all the nations where they are scattered (ALL OF THEM). .
afaict the return under Ezra was a voluntary migration, and was not all of them, yet it is seen in the Jewish tradition as moved by G-d, and as a fulfillment of prophecy.
Well, as I told you before. You tried to suggest that because more Jews were being born in Israel then were migrating, that made the prophecy null and void. DID YOU FORGET YOUR ORIGNAL ARGUEMENT? Now that you discovered the increase of Jewish population in Israel would be for both reasons. NOW you want to distant yourself from your old arguement, and creating a deversion by the introduction of a new arguement. SeekerSA, you are way to obvious!
You moved the goal posts when I clearly showed that migration is not happening, I did not say the prophesy is null and void, I used your bible to show the movement alleged to happen to make this come true is not happening. From your link I showed you that they said that increase is in the increased birth rates and that they stated migration was insignificant. Your link not mine. You just never read the whole thing but we all know that is how you operate. People breeding in Israel post 1948 is no miracle or rocket science. I would like to use other words here but I may not, so I will simply say people do it and babies are a result.
The high breeders are anyway the ultra orthodox and the folk you lot are aligned with as they have the same aspirations as you for rebuilding the temple and reintroducing animal sacrifice yet you keep claiming that the returning Jews are the ones that have defile his word, make you blooming mind up will you.
Quote:
The prophecy does not say the Jewish people would be zombified. It only tells us that God would gather the Jewish people, allowing them to return to their own land. And on occasions, they do return in droves. Such as the eight hundred thousand Jewish people that returned from Russia in the 1990s. Or the thousands that returned from Europe in the 1940s and 1950s. Or the thousands of Jews that have come out of Africa in recent years. Your statements are often stated while ignoring historical facts. And that is the only way you can continue your arguement.
What happened in 1948 and 1990 is of no significance. The current trends are opposite to your claims. White folk left SA in droves in the 90's many are returning now, the population still increased since then, it proves nothing apart from the fact more people do it (and more often) = more babies = more population, no rocket science needed to work that out.
Quote:
And I believe years ago when Mark Twain was over in the Middle East, he said of Jerusalem. Poor Jerusalem, never shall she rise again. Mark Twain like you did not believe in the prophecies of the Bible either. Yet time and the Bible has proved that Mark Twain was wrong. And time and the Bible will prove you wrong as well. You say they can not rebuild their Temple because such a thing has already been banned. Well it was not that many years ago that the Jews were not allow to migrate to Israel and Jerusalem. And that was because they were banned from doing that. Yet now they control both Israel and Jerusalem. So much for that banning.LOL
I really do not give a **** what Twain said nor do I take that into cognizance. As for Jews not being able to migrate you are taking out of you know what. There have always been Jews in Palestine pre 1948. Page back and look at my links and see there was already a large migration prior to 1948. WWII just accelerated the return of some but not all.
Even if they outbreed their diaspora counterparts and the majority (51%) are then found in Israel, they have a ways to go before they the woo lot become the majority and change the laws. It will fail as their kids will have to leave for greener pastures to pursue careers and family of their own. Israel cannot support a population too big as it has limited resources. This is why the Zionists want to expand to get their hands on their neighbor's resources. Neither the US nor the UN nor Russia will allow that to happen.
All you are trying to do is make your book of fables align with an ever changing reality and you constantly fail. Even our Jewish folk here have told you you are talking BS.
The "prophesies" I posted which your whole argument is based on has absolutely nada to do with Israel 1948.
afaict the return under Ezra was a voluntary migration, and was not all of them, yet it is seen in the Jewish tradition as moved by G-d, and as a fulfillment of prophecy.
Thank you for chiming in.
I was too lazy to look up the actual fulfillment but the woo that C34 is espousing for the uber battle of the ages and armageddon is foolishness at best.
We've beaten this horse to hell and back and yet he still continues to make the stuff up as he feels fit.
Concerning your other posts, viz technology, that is probably true but I really doubt if all Jews did return, the economy could support them. Furthermore as you stated, it confirms the stats I posted re migration. I do try and find Jewish sites when looking up stats.
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