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In most other religions, the bad guys or whatever get their 'just desserts.' Is Christian Universalism the only religion where everyone gets to live happy ever after? In Buddhist do all eventually reach Nirvana after many re-births, just it takes longer for some to reach it than others? Hinduism doesn't really seem to have an ultimate destination, just endless re-birth.
when you say Hinduism,your talking about alot of different sect's,the Vaishnava's,or devotee's of Krishna believe that since every living entity originates from the eternal spiritual dimension that in time,after many births all will return to this dimension where they will live eternally full of bliss and knowledge.
In most other religions, the bad guys or whatever get their 'just desserts.' Is Christian Universalism the only religion where everyone gets to live happy ever after? In Buddhist do all eventually reach Nirvana after many re-births, just it takes longer for some to reach it than others? Hinduism doesn't really seem to have an ultimate destination, just endless re-birth.
Hey Trimac20
The "bad Guys" in UR do get their just desserts. They are judged and they reap what they sow, but then they wilkl repent and be cleansed. God will save all his children and that is the good news.
In most other religions, the bad guys or whatever get their 'just desserts.' Is Christian Universalism the only religion where everyone gets to live happy ever after? In Buddhist do all eventually reach Nirvana after many re-births, just it takes longer for some to reach it than others? Hinduism doesn't really seem to have an ultimate destination, just endless re-birth.
Well you may or may not have known this, but Mormonism actually holds that basically everyone in the world ends up in a paradise of some level or another. They divy up the afterlife into levels of glory. If you're a very bad person you'll get punished for what you've done wrong in this life and you most definitely won't enjoy it at all, but you won't "burn in hell forever." Once you're done getting your just dues, you'll end up in a lesser level of paradise. Even people like Stalin and Hitler, by Mormon theology, would get punished equal to their crimes and then live the remainder of eternity in paradise. The better and more obedient to God the person is, the higher their reward in the afterlife.
I imagine somebody else can fill in the details better than me.
In Buddhist do all eventually reach Nirvana after many re-births, just it takes longer for some to reach it than others? Hinduism doesn't really seem to have an ultimate destination, just endless re-birth.
Some schools of Buddhism have a sort of eschatology where after 5,000 years or so, mankind will forget the Dharma and the memory of the Buddha, and grow progressively meaner, more violent, more sinful, etc. Eventually when humanity is at its most corrupt, a new Buddha called the Maitreya will appear, rediscover the path to Nirvana and lead humanity into a new Golden Age. See also; Jesus 2.0, Kalki (Hindu), Mahdi (Islam), Saoshyant (Zoroastrian), Neo (The Matrix), ad nauseum. To answer your question, though, it can be assumed that during that 5,000 years people will continue to be born, die, and be reborn, and that at least a few will attain nirvana.
I'm not sure what I believe as far as that goes. My gut feeling is that it will play out more like the Hindu version you mentioned, just going on and on and on in a cycle of creation, destruction, and rebirth. Maybe universal nirvana will coincide with the heat death of the universe or something, on a scale of time so far in the future as to be basically meaningless to us mere humans? Who knows. I do know that I'm doubtful about the whole Maitreya thing. I guess I'm just naturally skeptical about any predictions about world events and the state of mankind that extend beyond, say, the next hour or two.
Well you may or may not have known this, but Mormonism actually holds that basically everyone in the world ends up in a paradise of some level or another. They divy up the afterlife into levels of glory. If you're a very bad person you'll get punished for what you've done wrong in this life and you most definitely won't enjoy it at all, but you won't "burn in hell forever." Once you're done getting your just dues, you'll end up in a lesser level of paradise. Even people like Stalin and Hitler, by Mormon theology, would get punished equal to their crimes and then live the remainder of eternity in paradise. The better and more obedient to God the person is, the higher their reward in the afterlife.
I imagine somebody else can fill in the details better than me.
You have it pretty much right, but Mormon theology does have a place they call Outer Darkness, which is not one of the 3 degrees of glory (celestial, terrestrial, telestial) to which you alluded.
I quote from the LDS Sunday School manual "Gospel Principles":
Quote:
Assignment to Glories At the Final Judgment we will be assigned to the kingdom for which we are prepared. We will be sent to one of four places: the celestial kingdom (the highest degree of glory), the terrestrial kingdom (the second degree), the telestial kingdom (the lowest degree), or outer darkness (the kingdom of the devil--not a degree of glory).
In Doctrine and Covenants 76, the Lord described the ways we can choose to live our mortal lives. He explained that our choices will determine which of the four kingdoms we are prepared for. We learn from this revelation that even members of the Church will inherit different kingdoms because they will not be equally faithful and valiant in their obedience to Christ.
The following are the kinds of lives we can choose to live and the kingdoms our choices will obtain for us.
Celestial
"They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized, . . . that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit." These are they who overcome the world by their faith. They are just and true so that the Holy Ghost can seal their blessings upon them. (See D&C 76:51-53.) Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple (see D&C 131:1-4). All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever (see D&C 76:62).
Terrestrial
These are they who rejected the gospel on earth but afterward received it in the spirit world. These are the honorable people on the earth who were blinded to the gospel of Jesus Christ by the craftiness of men. These are also they who received the gospel and a testimony of Jesus but then were not valiant. They will be visited by Jesus Christ but not by our Heavenly Father. (See D&C 76:73-79.) They will not be part of eternal families; they will live separately and singly forever (see D&C 131:1-4).
Telestial
These people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in hell until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected. "These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie." These people are as numerous as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. They will be visited by the Holy Ghost but not by the Father or the Son. (See D&C 76:81-86, 103-6.)
Outer Darkness
These are they who had testimonies of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord but allowed Satan to overcome them. They denied the truth and defied the power of the Lord. There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. They will not have a kingdom of glory. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. (See D&C 76:28-35, 44-48.)
In the minds of some Mormons (including my dad before he died), I am a candidate for Outer Darkness, because I had a testimony of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord, but apparently allowed Satan to overcome me because I now deny the "truth" and deny the Holy Spirit after having received it. I am a former Mormon, who was born in the covenant, received the Gift of the Holy Ghost, received and exercised the priesthood of God, received my temple endowments, was married in the Nauvoo temple for time and all eternity. And now I am an atheist and Mormon apostate.
However, many Mormons would say that I am not eligible for Outer Darkness, because I never saw the Lord during this life and then rejected him. They believe that it is very difficult to qualify for Outer Darkness, and when I was a believer I shared that belief. But, nevertheless, not everyone goes to "heaven" in Mormon theology.
Last edited by Hueffenhardt; 04-20-2011 at 05:59 AM..
You have it pretty much right, but Mormon theology does have a place they call Outer Darkness, which is not one of the 3 degrees of glory (celestial, terrestrial, telestial) to which you alluded.
You're right in that not everyone goes to Heaven according to LDS theology, but it definitely is far more universalist in its beliefs than any other Christian religion around. I have occasionally thrown out an arbitrary percentage of the number of people the LDS Church would say end up in Outer Darkness. I put it at about .000001%. Obviously, that's not doctrinal. But it serves to illustrate my point.
Quote:
In the minds of some Mormons (including my dad before he died), I am a candidate for Outer Darkness, because I had a testimony of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord, but apparently allowed Satan to overcome me because I now deny the "truth" and deny the Holy Spirit after having received it. I am a former Mormon, who was born in the covenant, received the Gift of the Holy Ghost, received and exercised the priesthood of God, received my temple endowments, was married in the Nauvoo temple for time and all eternity. And now I am an atheist and Mormon apostate.
You realize, of course, that almost noboby reading this (except for me) will have a clue as to what much of this even means. For a Latter-day Saint, you've clearly outlined how fall you've "fallen" , but terminology like being "born in the covenant," "exercising the priesthood," and "receiving my endowments," means nothing to most people. Suffice it to say, people, Hueff was a practicing Latter-day Saint who no longer believes.
Quote:
However, many Mormons would say that I am not eligible for Outer Darkness, because I never saw the Lord during this life and then rejected him. They believe that it is very difficult to qualify for Outer Darkness, and when I was a believer I shared that belief. But, nevertheless, not everyone goes to "heaven" in Mormon theology.
Here's how I explain our doctrine on the subject to people who don't understand what we believe "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" means. Peter, James and John were witnesses to Jesus Christ's Transfiguration. They saw something that would, in the minds of pretty much anyone who experienced it, confirm that Jesus Christ was not just some preacher telling people to love one another, but the actual Son of God, Deity in His own right. Had any of them, at a later date been put in a position of either affirming or denying this witness, and had they denied it, they would have been candidates for Outer Darkness. This isn't something very many people are even in a position of having to worry about.
In most other religions, the bad guys or whatever get their 'just desserts.' Is Christian Universalism the only religion where everyone gets to live happy ever after? In Buddhist do all eventually reach Nirvana after many re-births, just it takes longer for some to reach it than others? Hinduism doesn't really seem to have an ultimate destination, just endless re-birth.
Is "Christian Universalism" even a specific denomination within Christianity? I may be wrong, but I don't believe so.
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"Nothing ever ends." -Dr Manhattan, "Watchmen"
Obviously, that's not doctrinal. But it serves to illustrate my point.
, but terminology like being "born in the covenant," "exercising the priesthood," and "receiving my endowments," means nothing to most people. Suffice it to say, people, Hueff was a practicing Latter-day Saint who no longer believes. 
