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And since you demanded it of the OP,tell us how well you would do towards overriding your (presumed) natural desire towards the opposite sex and deciding that you would like to have sex with the same gender instead.
LOL! I love it. Seeing two chicks get it on doesn't bother me but the idea of even touching a man in that way is so repulsive to me that I can't even describe it.
Yes, who could forget helios666. I have always truly admired your sincerity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helios666
You first mention "behavioral tendencies". That may be your first mistake, with all due respect. While sex is definitely a behavior, the urge to have it in the first place, is NOT. Nobody does anything without a payoff, and when it comes to simple instincts- which sex definitely is- people engage in it for the literal payoff, because it satisfies them- physically (and as well spiritually, when it comes to sex, because love is most typically tied to sexual relations).
Humans are animals and we definitely have our instincts and needs, and the sexual one is pretty damn strong! And most people can easily say that they began having those biological "urges" around puberty...and so let's make an example: you, Tigetmax- when you began having those "urges" and so forth, did you make a decision as to who you wanted to, shall we say, help you "satisfy" those urges? Did you sit, maybe ponder whether or not a boy or girl might be better adept to please you? I bet not. If you were a boy from my generation, you would've been knocking off to your Farrah Fawcett poster without a second thought. Know why? Cos you are like most everyone else your age- GAY people included- and are just 'turned on' by who you're turned on by! Your gay friends back then (and yes, I'm sure you had some) had that same Farrah poster, but probably didn't get as much out of it as you did.
You won't find any disagreement from me over the nature of sexual urges in human beings - absolutely, these are incredibly strong. I really hate to admit this, but Melvin.George actually gives a great illustration concerning predispositions towards femininity for some and masculinity for others. As I stated initially, I'm very much inclined to this view. My personal observations pretty much fall in line with his.
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Originally Posted by helios666
And VERY seldom there may come into play life circumstances that might change one's innate sexual preference. Assuming you are a male and heterosexual, is there ANYTHING that could possibly happen in your life to sway you into being intimate with another man?!? NO. So what makes you think that other straight men would just CHOOSE that??!? Pfft! Men are visceral and the literal thought of another man naked around them- even to reasonable non-homophobes is just gross to them.
No, there's nothing that I find sexually attractive about other men. In fact, I've often been puzzled as to why women are attracted to men.
However, my personal attraction towards women (the attractive one's anyway) would seem to me to be every bit as strong an urge as would be any sexual attraction of any male to another male or vice versa. I happen to be married. If my natural urge is prodding me to pursue sexual relations with other women, should I just chalk it up as a natural urge that must and should be satisfied? Many men would testify to strong urges to have sexual relations with multiple women - does that mean they are justified in giving in to such urges?
I think you know enough about me to also know that I'm 'old school.' I do believe in the concept of moral absolutes i.e., the existence of, and difference between, right and wrong.
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Originally Posted by helios666
SO- my conclusion is that anyone who actually entertains (or simply spouts off whether they are honest with themselves or not) the notion that homosexuality is a "choice" falls into one of three categories:
1. They are bisexual. Thus, they themselves have a choice as to which sex they can be physically and spiritually fullfilled, so they would of course assume that others are like them. It's normal for people to believe that everyone else feels the same things as they.
2. They are homosexual themselves, and are in absolute denial, and it scares the HELL out of them, because they want to "fit in", not be ridiculed (by bigots like themselves), etc.. So, they resort to something manmade, like religion, in order to give them a way "out". These types usually adhere to the stricter, more fundamental religions because within them, there are more rules- and more outlined, literally scripted reasons to justify intolerance. PERFECT for disguising one's true self, spiritual and otherwise. Of course it's common knowledge that very often, despite living the lie they do on the surface, they'll seek sexual gratification outside their marriage/commitment (and in my personal opinion, that is TWO wrongs, first being not living as god intended you to live and second, lying to your spouse and family...)
3. They have been so completely sheltered and brainwashed to the point where they simply cannot think logically, and are only able to think within the confines of what they have been taught. They aren't able to emote and relate ethically with regard to particular situations and/or circumstances- they relate everything only within the parameters of their limited scope of culture/religion/knowledge.
Presumably, you would include me in the third category?
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Originally Posted by helios666
There you have it. If there's a fourth category- I don't know it. And if there remains any logical "choice" that anyone can truly justify to explain why anyone would want to have sex with a person of their own sex- please, do tell.
Now as per the OP and comparing being gay to religion: well obviously, religious practice IS a choice. No matter what you were taught to believe, and irregardless of any molding by your culture or family- with your own will and strength, you can still look around you, educate yourself and learn all you can in order to make a conscious decision about your own spirituality, and how and where you practice it. But who you are attracted to? That is NO choice, not for the majority of living breathing humans, anyway. It's not a conscious thought! You are attracted to the sex you're attracted to and from there, you love who you love and it is what it is, plain and simple. Period.
The only "choice" with regard to one's sexual actions is whether or not one opts to be true to themselves and thus live to their fullest potential. Which is a choice that EVERYONE should make, and who we choose to bed with is so RIDICULOUSLY minute a decision that I can't actually believe I've wasted so much time writing several paragraphs to defend it.
"Religion" is a rather loaded term. I think we would have to get into more detail before being able to logically refer to all religion as a choice. If we look at religion as merely a world view, then we (most sane individuals) actually have no choice. Now, I realize that many assert that they have no world view. However, mere denial of a world view doesn't preclude one from actually having a world view. It only means they have the ability to assert a denial of having a world view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helios666
And that's just it- if people would stop worrying about what others think and do, and just LIVE, LOVE and BE...then we'd all get a lot more done, including becoming a more sensitive and spiritually advance race of people, instead of being little short of a bunch of backwoods hicks that fistfight over power. Which is what our world relations has come to. Mostly based on religion, which breeds intolerance, much like we have here...!
There's obviously things here that you and I will probably have to agree to disagree over. As far as LIVE, LOVE and BE, to a great extent I agree. Love the sinner, hate the sin.
[As an aside (this is probably going to come off as really anal but I'm actually trying to be helpful) there is no such word as "irregardless."]
[As an aside (this is probably going to come off as really anal but I'm actually trying to be helpful) there is no such word as "irregardless."]
Well,to be equally anal,there actually is,irregardless of your belief otherwise
From Merriam-Webster
ir·re·gard·less adv \ˌir-i-ˈgärd-ləs\
Definition of IRREGARDLESS
nonstandard
: regardless
Usage Discussion of IRREGARDLESS
Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead
Well,to be equally anal,there actually is,irregardless of your belief otherwise
From Merriam-Webster
ir·re·gard·less adv \ˌir-i-ˈgärd-ləs\
Definition of IRREGARDLESS
nonstandard
: regardless
Usage Discussion of IRREGARDLESS
Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.†There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead
many Christians have it all wrong. We are not commanded by Jesus to condemn anyone, in fact we are commanded not to. Jesus taught us not to attempt to remove the speck from our brothers eye since we have a log stuck in our own. It's God who decides what is sinful and what is not and it's also God who deals with each and everyone regarding their shortcomings. We as Christians are called to LOVE our neighbours. The definition of neighbour in the bible is all other people. When Jesus Himself who should be the Lord of all Christians said,"I came into the world NOT to judge the world", then how could any Christian appoint themselves as a judge? Us Christians are no better than anyone else at all. We are sinners just the same as the nonChristian but we are forgiven of our sins. This fact should cause the Christian to be humble, forgiving and understanding of all human weakness.
We as Christians are called to LOVE our neighbours. The definition of neighbour in the bible is all other people. When Jesus Himself who should be the Lord of all Christians said,"I came into the world NOT to judge the world", then how could any Christian appoint themselves as a judge? Us Christians are no better than anyone else at all. We are sinners just the same as the nonChristian but we are forgiven of our sins. This fact should cause the Christian to be humble, forgiving and understanding of all human weakness.
Oh...it's more than that:
Do unto others
Love thy neighbor
Walk the extra mile
Love thine enemies
Pray for those who curse and despise you
If sued in court for your coat voluntairly give cloak also
Give a tithe as a requirement then give gifts in addition to that
Then...if you would be perfect sell what you have and give it to the poor
Matthew 5:48 Be Ye Therefore Perfect Even As The Father Who Is In Heaven Is Perfect
I've never met anyone like that...'course I'm just 77 years old.
Last edited by Melvin.George; 04-24-2011 at 05:26 PM..
I know this is a hot topic with this poster, I was just wondering if he had a specific example. Personal, private, political, etc.
Appears to me the man is a natural homosexual and is tired of a large group of Americans believing he is going to hell for the way he was born.
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