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If you can't understand how a person could be gay without choosing to be, ask yourself when you chose to be heterosexual. Can you just choose what turns you on?
Could you just choose to love someone of the same sex 'in that way', if you wanted to? No you couldn't (unless you were bisexual). Well gay people have that same feeling you do, but about the opposite sex.
Moderator cut: edit
I will tell you something I have found out--People "get off" on ALL KINDS of stuff. Some of it would turn other people completely off...possibly even cause them to be repulsed to the point of physical illness. I'm sure most know of/about many of these types of things.
We call anything outside of basic "one man on one women" sex, void of anything that would be considered "kinky" by the "mainstream", a FETISH.
I don't see these fetishes as something intrinsic to the person, but acquired...similar to smoking cigarettes or doing shots of 100 proof whiskey--It's starts off kinda tough to take...but whatever drew the people to explore it to begin with, usually compels them to stay with it to the point that it becomes something they aren't just "in to", but in fact, feel they "need" to be "turned on". And though I've yet to see any ever "change their mind" subsequently, and decide they are now "turned off" by something that has become a "turn on"...I've never for a second felt it was anything more than a "headtrip" they have developed.
I feel homosexuality falls into the category of a fetish.
Since I pass no judgments on people based of what "trips their trigger" sexually...and have no bias toward anyone about who with, how, or how often they "get it on", as long as it's all honest and consenting...I pass no judgments on homosexuals. MOF, the gays tend to be less sexually repressed than the straights...also more sexually "creative".
But again, I see homosexuality as just another fetish. No different than pain, domination, humiliation, role play, multiple partners simultaneously, and all the various really radical things people are into.
I also see what is nothing more than overall "gender identity" issues, being mistaken for a "sexual orientation" issue...thus the confusion that seeing boys that want to play with dolls, and girls that want to "rough house", as some sort of a "marker" for being "wired" to be sexually attracted to the same gender.
It's easy for me to observe objectively and intently to this, since it's "business" to me.
But from what I can see...homosexuality is no more intrinsic to a persons sexual nature, than say, being into pain as a sexual turn on.
I don't see these fetishes as something intrinsic to the person, but acquired...similar to smoking cigarettes or doing shots of 100 proof whiskey--\
...
I feel homosexuality falls into the category of a fetish.
...
But again, I see homosexuality as just another fetish. No different than pain, domination, humiliation, role play, multiple partners simultaneously, and all the various really radical things people are into.
I also see what is nothing more than overall "gender identity" issues, being mistaken for a "sexual orientation" issue...thus the confusion that seeing boys that want to play with dolls, and girls that want to "rough house", as some sort of a "marker" for being "wired" to be sexually attracted to the same gender.
.....
It's easy for me to observe objectively and intently to this, since it's "business" to me.
But from what I can see...homosexuality is no more intrinsic to a persons sexual nature, than say, being into pain as a sexual turn on.
Objectively? For ALL gays and lesbians? In a porn business?
Well you can "see homosexuality as a fetish" if you like, but you won't find many scientists or health professionals or gay people who would agree with you. Why do you think that might be?
Sexual orientation is entirely different to a paraphilia. You can have straight people with paraphilias and gay people with paraphilias.
Here are just a few studies for your information:
******************
”Current evidence indicates that sexual differentiation of the human brain occurs during fetal and neonatal development and programs our gender identity— our feeling of being male or female and our sexual orientation as hetero-, homo-, or bisexual. This sexual differentiation process is accompanied by many structural and functional brain differences among these groups.”
"The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."
"New Evidence of Genetic Factors Influencing Sexual Orientation in Men: Female Fecundity Increase in the Maternal Line". Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF (2010). Pediatric Neuroendocrinology http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
******* "Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait. The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex. The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy”
“There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one.”
"I demonstrate that the number of biological older brothers, including those not reared with the participant (but not the number of nonbiological older brothers), increases the probability of homosexuality in men. These results provide evidence that a prenatal mechanism(s), and not social and/or rearing factors, affects men's sexual orientation development."
"Biological Versus Nonbiological Older Brothers and Men’s Sexual Orientation," published by PNAS (Proceedings of the NationalAcademy of Sciences of the United States of America): Bogaert, A (2006) http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10771.full.pdf
**************
"There's a converging line of evidence between the hormonal studies, the genetic studies, and the neuroanatomical studies. My research has identified candidate genes within these new chromosomal regions that could link together all of these different findings”
“…the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11”
"Male homosexuals have had less steroid exposure during [fetal] development than male heterosexuals and... female homosexuals have had greater steroid exposure during development than their heterosexual counterparts."
"The determinants of sexual interest, in the sense of preferences for the same or opposite sex... appear to be caused by the neural organizational effects of the intrauterine hormonal events."
"A growing body of empirical literature suggests that the brains of gay males are less masculinized than those of heterosexual males, reflected in visual-spatial task performance -- a measure of cerebral masculinazation and one in which heterosexual males usually surpass females.
Several studies report that the cognitive performance of gay males is more typical of heterosexual females than heterosexual males.
Furthermore, the brain waves of gay males while performing verbal and spatial tasks are more similar to heterosexual females than males or significantly different from both." Relationships among childhood sex-atypical behavior, spatial ability, handedness, and sexual orientation in men. Cohen KM. Arch Sex Behav.(2002)
I'm starting to think extreme religiousity and judgemental self-righteousness is a fetish or an addiction. Or maybe it's a mental disorder or "defect"?
Of course I have no actual evidence for my opinion, but what does that matter?
being religious is a choice, a behavior, and a belief system. Homosexuality is NONE of these things. I've been gay my whole life WITHOUT choice. (it's an unchosen trait). Why do I have to have my rights infringed on by people who are part of a special interest group? Their religion is a choice and a lifestyle. my sexual orientation isn't.
Dude, 13 of the 16 threads you've initiated basically pose the same question and rant. This topic must absolutely consume you.
Gay acceptance is a process. It will come with time, whether people like it or not. Thirty or forty years ago, homosexuals had nothing compared to what they have now in terms of acceptance and rights.
Quit worrying about what YOU THINK everybody else thinks about you and move on. You will have a healthier life if you change your outlook on things. And just for the record to clear up your obvious misconception, Christians are NOT the only group that disagrees with homosexuality.
Most people could care less what you do behind closed doors as long as they're not affected by it. It's the way you carry on about it that draws negative attention.
Objectively? For ALL gays and lesbians? In a porn business?
Well you can "see homosexuality as a fetish" if you like, but you won't find many scientists or health professionals or gay people who would agree with you. Why do you think that might be?
Sexual orientation is entirely different to a paraphilia. You can have straight people with paraphilias and gay people with paraphilias.
Here are just a few studies for your information:
******************
”Current evidence indicates that sexual differentiation of the human brain occurs during fetal and neonatal development and programs our gender identity— our feeling of being male or female and our sexual orientation as hetero-, homo-, or bisexual. This sexual differentiation process is accompanied by many structural and functional brain differences among these groups.”
"The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."
"New Evidence of Genetic Factors Influencing Sexual Orientation in Men: Female Fecundity Increase in the Maternal Line". Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF (2010). Pediatric Neuroendocrinology http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
******* "Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait. The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex. The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy”
“There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one.”
"I demonstrate that the number of biological older brothers, including those not reared with the participant (but not the number of nonbiological older brothers), increases the probability of homosexuality in men. These results provide evidence that a prenatal mechanism(s), and not social and/or rearing factors, affects men's sexual orientation development."
"Biological Versus Nonbiological Older Brothers and Men’s Sexual Orientation," published by PNAS (Proceedings of the NationalAcademy of Sciences of the United States of America): Bogaert, A (2006) http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10771.full.pdf
**************
"There's a converging line of evidence between the hormonal studies, the genetic studies, and the neuroanatomical studies. My research has identified candidate genes within these new chromosomal regions that could link together all of these different findings”
“…the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11”
"Male homosexuals have had less steroid exposure during [fetal] development than male heterosexuals and... female homosexuals have had greater steroid exposure during development than their heterosexual counterparts."
"The determinants of sexual interest, in the sense of preferences for the same or opposite sex... appear to be caused by the neural organizational effects of the intrauterine hormonal events."
"A growing body of empirical literature suggests that the brains of gay males are less masculinized than those of heterosexual males, reflected in visual-spatial task performance -- a measure of cerebral masculinazation and one in which heterosexual males usually surpass females.
Several studies report that the cognitive performance of gay males is more typical of heterosexual females than heterosexual males.
Furthermore, the brain waves of gay males while performing verbal and spatial tasks are more similar to heterosexual females than males or significantly different from both." Relationships among childhood sex-atypical behavior, spatial ability, handedness, and sexual orientation in men. Cohen KM. Arch Sex Behav.(2002)
Nothing you listed hasn't been contested by other equally qualified professionals.
I'm not at all religious...and sure as heck not about to start a rock fight while sitting in my glass house. I know what I am, and what I do...and that certainly precludes any self-righteousness.
I'm just a guy that has spent most of my life assessing the sexual proclivities of countless people. Of course, so I could use that info/knowledge to more successfully market sexually orientated products to them...but that hasn't skewed my determinations.
MOF, I've even seen full homos have sex with the opposite gender...because they "got off" on what was to them "radical sex". Just like prisoners "learn" to be "turned on" by homosex.
I have no problem what-so-ever with homosexuality...I'm not into it, but I have no qualms with anyone who is.
I just know what I have observed...firsthand...for 26 years...during focused observation and assessment, at least 8 hrs per day 6 days a week...of a huge group of people that present 75% homo or bi...while they are involved in sexual activity.
being religious is a choice, a behavior, and a belief system. Homosexuality is NONE of these things. I've been gay my whole life WITHOUT choice. (it's an unchosen trait). Why do I have to have my rights infringed on by people who are part of a special interest group? Their religion is a choice and a lifestyle. my sexual orientation isn't.
I am with you. Sadly, some people have this need to impose their moral views on others by demanding laws that control your behavior.
When I have dinner at home with my family it does not affect me in the least bit who you are in bed with in the house next to me so why should I interfere with your privacy?
However, for the sake of argument let us say you choose your sexual orientation. It makes not difference still. I always suggest to gays to not try to convince others it is not a choice. You will not change their minds. That can only happen on their own. A long time ago I believed as others do but as time passed I looked more closely on the principles in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and realized I need to respect your rights regardless of whether I agree with your lifestyle or not. It is not anybody else's business who you mate with. Take care.
Can gay people marry the person they love and are attracted to anywhere in this country just like heterosexuals can?
Massachusetts.
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