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One last time with this Nozz...on this thread, or any other.....
This is not unlike someone that has always been blind, telling a sighted person, that, even though he/she used their sense of sight to observe something over and over again, that does not necessarily prove it is so.
Because they themselves are not capable of sight, they do not comprehend the capacity of that sense to gather data for a person that does.
The problem with this analogy of course is that you erroneously presume to be the sighted person, and not the blind.
Everyone but the atheists can pretty much all agree that God is or gods are, etc. As far as I can tell, that's all you're asking, right? Or are you saying that we have to disbelieve a bunch of things?
Amusing that Gldn keeps appealing to popular opinion as if it should be a convincing fact and yet slavishly promotes Mystics ideas which are most definately NOT the most widely held beliefs.
No, no, no...not "popular opinion"---The facts known to most through direct perceptional observation over all of human history. Big difference.
The thread is "Can we at least Agree on Deism?". So only the existence of a God is at issue here. "Attributes of" and "beliefs about" are another matter.
I do not profess to be in the same league with Mystic as respects the finer details about God...I'm still learning...but I do KNOW God exists.
God Exists...THAT is the "widely held belief" I am endorsing here.
Eyewitness accounts are considered to be unreliable by many. One's perceptions may easily be mistaken. Much of religious "direct perceptional observation" is secondhand or worse (e.g., 'Moses said he talked to God', saith the Bible).
I don't think gnosticism (certain knowledge) applies to religion. One believes what he wants to or has been led to believe. I am an atheist, but I am not certain that there is no god because there is no way to be absolutely certain. Thus, I am an agnostic atheist.
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Sooooo...one one can ever be "wrong" on the matter...just "right"-to them...for no reason other than because THEY "say so". You need to get hip to that.
Your theory is self-defeating, by saying nobody can ever be wrong, you are claiming what you are saying is right. If I disagree with you, you are saying Im wrong.
When It comes to religion, there is a right and a wrong, its up to us to decide what we think that right is. No two conflicting statements can both be right.
I do not profess to be in the same league with Mystic as respects the finer details about God...I'm still learning...but I do KNOW God exists.
Thats the thing, you do not KNOW god exists any more than you KNOW that Im wearing a red shirt right now, I might tell you I have a red shirt on but in reality, you would just have to take it on faith because there is no verifiable evidence presented to you to prove as much. God is a Universal Negative, its existence cannot be proven, nor disproven. You can look at all the evidence and come to your own conclusion but in the end there is no concrete proof, this is somthing I am willing to admit despite my beleif in a creator God.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 05-05-2011 at 06:19 PM..
Failed? Because I did not answer a question you have not even asked me? Not once on this thread did you ask me where the first flower came from... and now you are jumping up and down telling me I have failed to answer it? Have some level of honesty please. It is not a failure to not answer a question you have not even been asked.
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Ok, Ill humor you. How does evolution explain the first flower? where did it come from? What was its predacessor?
Also, Im sure their is some big point that I'm missing by asking this, but . . . why is the human race not continuing to evolve? Or is it? Why are the people who live in colder climates not growing fur? { not trying to be funny } Evolution says that birds evolved from reptiles so why then, are there still reptiles in the same places on earth as birds? Do they not inhabit the very same envirments?
Thats the thing, you do not KNOW god exists any more than you KNOW that Im wearing a red shirt right now, I might tell you I have a red shirt on but in reality, you would just have to take it on faith because there is no verifiable evidence presented to you to prove as much. God is a Universal Negative, its existence cannot be proven, nor disproven. You can look at all the evidence and come to your own conclusion but in the end there is no concrete proof.
Amen! No one knows because no one can know. One might be certain in one's own mind, but god's existence is unknowable. Those who think they know god and talk with him everyday and feel his presence and see his hand, etc, cannot know that they are really experiencing god. They will swear up and down that they know, but it is something that cannot be known.
Also, Im sure their is some big point that I'm missing by asking this, but . . . why is the human race not continuing to evolve? Or is it? Why are the people who live in colder climates not growing fur?
It takes a very long time to see major changes, especially among humans, for whom it takes many years before we reach sexual maturity and that has to happen for every generation.
But, it has been posited that one reason for the white skin of northern Europeans, is because lighter skin pigments allowed for the easier production of Vitamin D in the less intense light of northern Europe compared to Africa and less skin was exposed to sunlight due to the extra layers of clothes.
There are some northern Europeans who are hairier than Africans, and there was not as much of an advantage to more hair since humans wore the skins of other animals. If our ancestors did not wear other animals skins, then the cold environment probably would have selected for hairier people.
It is difficult for humans to evolve much at this time because we are not isolated like we used to be, and you need reproductive isolation for evolution to take place on a large scale.
I think animals are just as much a part of God's "design", although I am open to possibility that it they may have been the engineering of another God. I believe that we have our ONE God for Mankind but He is one on a hierarchy of many Gods.
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