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You bring up something that I'm a little curious about and that's the subject of the prophecies, Native American prophecies to be exact, not Christian ones or anything that has to do with their sacred book. There is a whole line of Native American prophecies on youtube, I wonder if you have viewed any of them or read any of them, makes for interesting reading. You know I bring this up but I don't necessarily believe in all those prophecies, some may come true partially and some may not, I think it may be in some cases mere coincidence, it's all on how you interpret it.
Yes, ptsum prophecies are a very curious thing indeed. seeing the future, how could you be agnostic then, right? specifically about the future, if by induction you find that you are never wrong.
I am interested in this topic again, so I brought it up. Does anyone have any thoughts about what I have gathered so far?
you may chose which ever questions you wish. or any comments related to the topic.
what do you think agnosticism is or means?
There is no evidence for any god managing our affairs, but lets face it, we are little monkeys in a big universe... who knows what's out there?
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
what are the arguments against agnosticism?
This:
A dash of this for a spicy kick:
A big, stinking pile of this:
and maybe a little bit of this:
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
Is there anything we can actually agree on?
That there is a ongoing argument on the subject?
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
what is ultimately true?
I don't know... and anyone who claims to also wants you to "take it on faith" and contribute 10% of all you've got or get a PHD in Biology or Physics and spend your whole life trying to impress other poor saps who also got PHDs and spend all their waking hours trying to impress each other.
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
what are the emotional, moral, and other lackings of agnostics?
Um... we don't think we should proselytize to/demonize/blow up/ect. people who don't believe like we do?
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
Do you have any credentials and/or evidence for your claims?
Well, I don't like to bring this up in public, but I am a high priest of Pastafarianism, and I quote from chapter 2 of the book of Ricotta, verse 2:
For behold, the Prophet Luigi was very troubled and cried out to the FSM: "Why dost man exist, lord and why dost thou exist?" And the FSM spake, saying: "Behold Luigi, man alone hath been chosen among the apes of the land to partake of the finest meals and drink the finest wines. Is this not reason enough to exist? Wherefore, mine truth shall be known as men partaketh of my body, my cheeses, my meatiness and tomato sauce across the face of the land for all time.This is my reason for existence, and my great joy."
So you see, agnosticism is true and correct because you can get good Italian food all over the world. This is irrefutable evidence, because it is (now) written as a holy text to advise people everywhere on the meaning of life.
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
I want deep, insightful, and productive argument and disscusion please. I will appreciate all the imput to increase my understanding and maybe even other readers.
Sorry, but I am only capable of slightly acidic humor and a smidgeon of self-aggrandizement, mixed with 3 quarts of blended grey matter and a pint of crazy. Please forgive my misgivings.
you may chose which ever questions you wish. or any comments related to the topic.
what do you think agnosticism is or means?
Simple etymology. Without knowledge. The only slant is whether agnostics just claim the do not know or whether they believe its impossible to KNOW.
I am an agnostic who thinks it is impossible to definitively KNOW if there is a god but since I do not believe in any deity I am also an atheist.
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what are the arguments against agnosticism?
No valid ones. Anyone who is a gnostic in terms of thinking they definitively KNOW anything about something without any evidence one way or the other is a nutcase.
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Is there anything we can actually agree on?
Based on your other posts likely not.
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what is ultimately true?
Faulty logic. Things are either true or not and is objective not subjective. Ultimately implies there are degrees of "true" and that is subjective.
Once something is out of the objective and into the subjective there are no absolutes.
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what are the emotional, moral, and other lackings of agnostics?
This is the most ridiculous question of this post. Agnostics are human first and have all of the exact same foibles in the exact same ratios as any other group of humans INCLUDING BELIEVERS.
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Do you have any credentials and/or evidence for your claims?
What claim? Agnosticism isn't a claim its a belief system. Claims are supported with OBJECTIVE evidence. Beliefs are inherently subjective, no support required.
Though I feel that this Thread accomplished alot, only in on a very limited topic and question, I can't belive no on else wishes to have a say... The general topic is the antagnostics; and I wish to learn more about them and their believes and evidences. Is that so hard or unfitting?
I hate when people butcher language and I do not mean the typos we all make.
Agnostic is already the opposite of something, gnosticism. Therefore at best anti-agnostic is a double negative.
Unless you are of course butchering the word "antagonistic" (which by the way would be a plural noun as antagonists).
If that is the case let me clarify a little something for you. Just because two words sounds similar they need not be remotely related. That is the case with antagonist and gnostic. Both come from greek words, "antagonizesthai" and "gnostikos". The prior means "to struggle against" while the later means "to know". They are not remotely related.
Though it doesn’t seem like the “non-agnostics” or “anti-agnostics” or “gnostics” are contributing very much…
It looks to me like Chango is saying that theists use idol scriptures and the existence of their beliefs as evidence against agnosticism. We agree that one of our weaknesses seems to
be that we don’t proselytize enough. However, I doubt the “gnostics” would agree. Lkb0714 said that agnostics are human first and have all the same human flaws as “gnostics.”
But I think that “gnostics” think agnostics have at least one further flaw or else they would think believing either is all the same. Lkb0714, when I talked about “claims” I was talking
about the anti-agnostic claims. Now, I don’t really agree with your belief that I have “butchered” English, I already know about the word “antagonistic” and the word “Gnostic” but if
you knew English you would know that we never use the word “Gnostic” when describing those who claim "absolute/definitive knowledge". We use the word “Gnostic” when we speak about a certain Christian denomination. plus, we come up with new words all the time, in order to increase our vocabulary.
And since “Gnostic” is an adjective that we use to describe those certain Christians, since they believed to have certain extra “knowledge” that other Christians lacked, I don’t like using it to describe the anti-agnostic atheists and theists.
Anti-agnostic obviously meaning “against-agnosticism.” I’m not sure how you got confused into thinking it was a double negative. A real double negative would look something like this: non-agnostic. This is because the prefix “a” already means “none/without.”
Thank you both for your contributions, they were very stimulating.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… …………………
Although Lkb0714 believes there are no legit arguments against agnosticism, I would like to start seeing some,
Thanks in advance.
I hate when people butcher language and I do not mean the typos we all make.
Agnostic is already the opposite of something, gnosticism. Therefore at best anti-agnostic is a double negative.
Unless you are of course butchering the word "antagonistic" (which by the way would be a plural noun as antagonists).
If that is the case let me clarify a little something for you. Just because two words sounds similar they need not be remotely related. That is the case with antagonist and gnostic. Both come from greek words, "antagonizesthai" and "gnostikos". The prior means "to struggle against" while the later means "to know". They are not remotely related.
You must be good as I have apparently over- repped you,
this " Therefore at best anti-agnostic is a double negative. " was excellent.
This thread seems to be a futile and misconceived attempt to try to make some footling point out of semantic dickering.
If anyone want to know about agnosticism or those who call themselves 'Gnostics' (but who don't know much more that anyone else, in fact) and the validity of knowledge of various kinds can find ir on the web without tossing cobbled terms like 'anti - agnostic' at us to watch us squabble about it.
P.s I looked it up.
There was the term applied in a highly dubious astrology site to Saturn. and this, which amused me greatly."Anti-agnostic are people that disbelieve what agnostic people believe him when !"
I appreciate everyone's enthusiam on what are the proper use of words / definition of those words are, but I really don't care. Call them what you like, I want to see their arguments... I have no idea why agnostics are posting in this thread, commenting on what they want me to call other people. I want those who don't consider themselves agnostic to show their arguments, please. If agnostics know any of their arguments, then post them, like some kind people have been doing...but please don't derail this thread with your personal emotions about what to properly call people with this or that certain set of believes. After all, it is excruciatingly obvious what I mean by "agnostic" and "anti-agnostic."
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 07-28-2011 at 11:06 AM..
you knew English you would know that we never use the word “Gnostic” when describing those who claim "absolute/definitive knowledge". We use the word “Gnostic” when we speak about a certain Christian denomination. plus, we come up with new words all the time, in order to increase our vocabulary.
And since “Gnostic” is an adjective that we use to describe those certain Christians, since they believed to have certain extra “knowledge” that other Christians lacked, I don’t like using it to describe the anti-agnostic atheists and theists.
Anti-agnostic obviously meaning “against-agnosticism.” I’m not sure how you got confused into thinking it was a double negative. A real double negative would look something like this: non-agnostic. This is because the prefix “a” already means “none/without.”
Gnostic is by no means limited to gnostic christians. There are a number of other gnostic religious groups including gnostic buddhists.
As a matter of fact there are entire groups of people who call themselves gnostic atheists.
Beautiful... other than not understanding their own condition as "thinking things," they label themselves something that is clearly a lie. Of course, I suppose I can call them "Gnostics" if they so chose to believe is more proper, though "wrong" might be more fitting an adjective for them. In either case, no "Gnostic" Buddhist or Christians or Atheist has to be "anti-agnostic". As the separate meaning of "anti-agnostic" is blatantly ease to understand. So if we could once more turn to the more important topic: what are the arguments against agnosticism?
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