Why did the Sabians decline to near extinction? (myth, prophecy, Islamic)
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There are so few Sabians remaining that few people even know of them. the most famous was John the Baptist. About the only non-sabian reference ts found in the Qur'an. In spite of their role in Christianity, they are not even mentioned in the Bible. Except for John the baptist.
To explain a little about who they are a google search helps. I found some information about them for the interested.
Quote:
Mandæans
An interesting sect, quite neglected, is that called by some the S John’s Christians because they regard Jesus as a false messiah but revere John the Baptist. They call themselves Mandæans and are an old religious sect. The Mandæan tradition preserves traces of the earliest forms of a pre-Christian gnosis. Importantly, they look back to a still more ancient tradition which is claimed to be purer and wiser than that of the Jews. It is that of the Essenes who can be seen to have had a remarkable influence on the world far exceeding their numbers.
The Mandæan tradition’s rejection of the Christian messianic claim is that Jesus was the Deceiver Messiah, and they say this derives from John himself. The baptism of Jesus by John is acknowledged, but given a mystic explanation. Jesus is not shown as unknowing, answering test questions from John with deep moral insight. Surprisingly, Mandæan tradition preserves nothing to show any belief in Jewish messianism at all. Its soteriology is peculiar, repudiating the Torah, Jewish prophecy and apocalyptic emphatically. Even so, its origins are certainly in Jerusalem in Judæa, and suggests John had a deep knowledge of the inner meaning of the Law.
The Mandæans survive, if indeed they still do after the avoidable misfortunes of that country, with only a few thousand adherents towards the mouth of the Euphrates on the borders of Iraq and Iran. For Mandæans, Allah (Alaha) is the False God, the True God being Mana, but the Mandæans seem to be the Sabians, the Baptizers, of the Quran.
They perform elaborate baptismal ceremonies on all religious occasions and daily before sunrise. Their attachment to these lustrations gave them the name Subba or Sabians meaning baptisers. The Essenes too were said to have welcomed the rise of the sun with ceremony and prayer. Note that Epiphanius identified Nazarenes with the “Daily Baptists” (Hemerobaptists).
The Sabians as you call them, are an interesting, if difficult for a Christian, group. (I think there's some uncertainty on who the "Sabians" the Qur'an talks of even are, some insist they are Mandaeans but I believe it's not a 100% clear) Difficult, because I believe Jesus is a bad guy in their mythos.
They are very much being persecuted right now and having to flee. They are being persecuted by Muslims, but I think it's impolite to make this yet another "Islam is awful" thread.
The Sabians as you call them, are an interesting, if difficult for a Christian, group. (I think there's some uncertainty on who the "Sabians" the Qur'an talks of even are, some insist they are Mandaeans but I believe it's not a 100% clear) Difficult, because I believe Jesus is a bad guy in their mythos.
They are very much being persecuted right now and having to flee. They are being persecuted by Muslims, but I think it's impolite to make this yet another "Islam is awful" thread.
It may be but its the truth, in that the world, those who are not muslim, Islam presents a clear danger...
Islam is peaceful as long as they are in the minority but I doubt that would be the case if that changed.
We would all be dhimmis and 2nd class citizens..
I don't hate Islam, I am terrified of Islam.... The thought of a world dominated by Muslims scares me in a big way....
Albania, Mali, Niger, and Senegal are majority Muslim nations that don't really have those issues. There's some inter-ethnic violence in Mali and Niger, but it doesn't seem to be classed as religious persecution. Indonesia's had problems, but it's settled down a bit in the last few years. I think non-Muslims can live fairly okay in Malaysia, although I believe leaving Islam is still forbidden there.
Albania, Mali, Niger, and Senegal are majority Muslim nations that don't really have those issues. There's some inter-ethnic violence in Mali and Niger, but it doesn't seem to be classed as religious persecution. Indonesia's had problems, but it's settled down a bit in the last few years. I think non-Muslims can live fairly okay in Malaysia, although I believe leaving Islam is still forbidden there.
Although it is possible to leave Islam in Malaysia, it is difficult. What non-Muslims do not understand is why in an Islamic state leaving Islam borders on treason.
A non-Muslin is not subject to shariah law, not required to join the military does not pay zakat ( a non Muslim does pay a Dhimmi tax, but it is usually less than what he would pas as zakat as a Muslim)
So an apostate is not required to join the military, does not pay Zakat and is not subect to sharia law. To keep Muslims from claiming referting in order to avoid any Islamic responsibilities Malaysia has made it difficult for a person to change their National Identity. The difficulty is not so much in changing religious beliefs, but one of legally changing national identity. this is more of a national rather than religious issue in Malaysia.
I may not be 100% accurate, this is my understanding of what I have heard from Malaysian friends.
Although it is possible to leave Islam in Malaysia, it is difficult. What non-Muslims do not understand is why in an Islamic state leaving Islam borders on treason.
A non-Muslin is not subject to shariah law, not required to join the military does not pay zakat ( a non Muslim does pay a Dhimmi tax, but it is usually less than what he would pas as zakat as a Muslim)
So an apostate is not required to join the military, does not pay Zakat and is not subect to sharia law. To keep Muslims from claiming referting in order to avoid any Islamic responsibilities Malaysia has made it difficult for a person to change their National Identity. The difficulty is not so much in changing religious beliefs, but one of legally changing national identity. this is more of a national rather than religious issue in Malaysia.
I may not be 100% accurate, this is my understanding of what I have heard from Malaysian friends.
That makes sense. I think this is an area where Islam is, no offense, a bit like what Christianity was in the Late Middle Ages.
In the late Middle Ages there was a kind of "two kingdoms", sometimes referred to as "Throne and Altar", approach which I'd grant is actually rather unlike Islam. Still the "Two Kingdoms" were both significant in the rules of this life. This is true in both Orthodoxy and Catholicism, although in Orthodoxy I think the two were a bit closer to Islam in being almost the same thing. So anyway to, publicly, leave Christianity was a form of treason and it placed one outside the law. (There isn't really a Christian equivalent to Islamic law, but there were codes expected to be followed by all) And indeed in some cases people who declared they were now apostate, or were just starting a new denomination, were intending a revolution against the state. So unrepentant, public, apostates were to be killed. (It's interesting though to read fifteenth/sixteenth century Christians, even those who personally supported killing heretic, would tolerate heretical opinions of associates if they had the "good sense" to keep them in private. For many to most of them it really was the fear of "anarchy" or "treason" that motivated.)
Still as a Christian, exempting maybe the Amish and Old Orthodox, living in the modern age it's a little hard to imagine a religion being such a total way of life covering virtually all areas. To the extent that leaving it means changing how you relate to the military, the state, what legal code you follow, etc. I can kind of understand it, and the idea of people being subject only to their own religion's law has a certain "Everyone to their own conscience" appeal, but it's very much not how we see living a modern or free life.
There are so few Sabians remaining that few people even know of them. the most famous was John the Baptist. About the only non-sabian reference ts found in the Qur'an. In spite of their role in Christianity, they are not even mentioned in the Bible. Except for John the baptist.
To explain a little about who they are a google search helps. I found some information about them for the interested.
A lot stranger things have happened when you get groups of MEN together claiming to be compiling the teachings and words of GOD.
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