An Open Letter To Those That Use The Bible To Condemn Homosexuality

[Fiyero]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

Leviticus was written for and about the Jews. Take it up with them.

Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?

Most Jews agree leviticus was not referring to modern day Homosexuality, so they've already concluded Christians who use it to condemn gays are wrong.

[Fiyero]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

As you know, Christianity is rooted in Judiaism. The OT merely reveals our roots, something we should be informed about.

And yet, almost nothing conservative Christians believe in is found in Judaism. Odd isn't it?

[Trackwatch]

Originally Posted by stillkit

Ummm....uh....dude? Do I have to explain to you how to tell if a woman is menstruating? If I do, you probably should just stay away from women as a matter of course and stick with men.

Please tell us how to do this without asking or the woman relating this information to you(directly or indirectly).

Most women are "hands off" during their cycle.

I think the "point" of this thread has gotten way off track. I believe the point was some "Bible thumpers" like to pick and choose parts of the Bible to support their position.

In the program West Wing, President Jed Bartlet, a devout Catholic, points this out to some religious extremists.

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

Dear Bible Experts,


Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.


I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.


1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?


7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?


8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)


I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

I say to "them">>>>>>>>>

For their God may have a plan and may have made us gay for reasons they cannot profess to understand........we should not question "his" wisdom or his creations.

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA

There is no debating when one has made up their "mind" as you have!

I'm really tired of the "gay bashing" allowed in this forum.....many of us refuse to post here any longer.....which is ashame..... for everyone looses our unique perspective and knowledge.

You are entitled to your beliefs; however you're condescending post needs an attitude adjustment!

For your God may have a plan and may have made us gay for reasons you cannot profess to understand........you should not question "his" wisdom or his creations.

Uh, I think he is on your side, PITT. I think it's sarcasm, or a parody of some of the more extreme Christians.

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by Trackwatch

Please tell us how to do this without asking or the woman relating this information to you(directly or indirectly).

Most women are "hands off" during their cycle.

I think the "point" of this thread has gotten way off track. I believe the point was some "Bible thumpers" like to pick and choose parts of the Bible to support their position.

In the program West Wing, President Jed Bartlet, a devout Catholic, points this out to some religious extremists.

Aw, come on. This thread doesn't have a serious point. The intent isn't to have a discussion, but to inflame.

Since the whole thing is a joke, I say treat it like a joke.

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

Mexicans work hard as Canadians are lazy. Because of that there's no demand for the Canadians so a big NDA is in order.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

How can you ask a question like that when we know NOTHING about her (looks, intelligence, job skills, work ethics etc). I mean - do you think these questions through before you ask them?

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Duh! It's the woman's job to tell you! Think these question through more thoroughly in the future - please.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

What??? A barbeque pit that smells bad? This is getting weirder by the second. I've never EVER had a neighbor or heard of a neighbor (or a neighbor's neighbor) complain about that. They usually complain because they are eating microwave prepared stuff while having to smell the good stuff from a barbeque pit.

Even when they did laser surgery on my pallet it smelled exactly like a good barbecue plate. Again - your question and reasoning here is baffling.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

Clearly it's the city elder's job to do the killing. All you have to do is squeal on him and get a couple of others to squeal as well. You will have to testify in court though.

Really - you need to read the whole book as the protocol on these matters is fairly clear.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

Of course. The "abomination of desolation" talked about in Matthew 24:15 is the worst. The rest are whichever is more repulsive to you. In my case the shellfish thing is far far less repulsive and therefore is a "min-abom" (as we say in the elite theological circles).

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

NO wiggle room!!! God does NOT want you to smash into the alter and injure yourself and/or damage the alter. Just stay in the pew and be happy, it's for your own good. Really it's just common sense.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

Make them where Elvis sideburns for the rest of their natural lives. That would be worse than death.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

Yes, as long as the gloves themselves are not made of pig skin. Again, a little common sense goes a long long way here.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Does it say to burn them about the crops? Really - I sense an attitude problem and trouble submitting to authority coming from you. Can't you just read the rules and accept them??? Sheeeesh - it would be much more simple and easy than what you are doing here.

Originally Posted by mikebnllnb

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

What you are lacking here is Rabbinical guidance. I noticed that you didn't even mention rabbinical guidance in the OP. Look. FIND A GOOD RABBI! Most of these questions you have are easily answered by anyone but you should get it from the horses mouth.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by stillkit

Aw, come on. This thread doesn't have a serious point. The intent isn't to have a discussion, but to inflame.

Since the whole thing is a joke, I say treat it like a joke.

I'll pass over the 'Don't listen to these guys' ploy and observe that, while the point that it is hypocritical to pick and choose from the Bible what is pushed at the highest possible level to influence law and society and what is simply ignored, the point has been long answered: Jesus' New covenant 'fulfilled' the Law (which being translated from theist to English means It made made obsolete all the stuff that Paul's gentiles wouldn't want to do).

So what it comes down to is that quotes from the OT simply won't do. If a Christian does anything from the OT t is because it was cherry picked by the NT as par of the New Covenant.

It follows that any objections to Homosexuality should be based on the NT, not the Old. If it can't be reliably and convincingly shown to be in the NT, it is utterly invalid.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by hnsq

Taking a single verse out of context to try to prove a point is fun, isn't it?

Try reading the entire book as a whole, not just bits and pieces...mmkay?

I have. Many times. A lot of those verses have the same meanings even when in context. In fact, many of the inconsistencies become even more apparent when you read the verses above or below. I study multiple translations of the Bible at least once a week so I can really understand it. There are still a lot of insane verses that, when it boils down to it, make no sense in today's context.

Yes, there are verses that could possibly be interpreted as condemning homosexuality. But there are verses that condemn all the things listed in the OP's post. That's the whole point. The Bible is chock-full of outdated moral standards and cultural norms.

For example:

18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,

19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,

20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

Leviticus 21:18-21 KJV

I find it interesting that no Christian has ever told me that I need to "work on abstaining from blindness to get closer to God" or that they "hate the blindness, but love the blind person". In fact, I found out about this little verse in a braille version of the Bible--in other words, Christian organizations go out of their way to distribute Bibles in audio, large print, and braille format to blind people who either are or want to be practicing Christians.

The two people that have taught me the most about the Bible are both deaf-blind. I first learned about the Bible when I was deaf-blind myself. In other words, blind people have taught me (another blind person) about a book that condemns blind people, but of course, failed to mentioned that. They did, however, mention many times that this book condemns homosexuality.

Cherry-picking, much?

[gabfest]

I just wanted to add...I realise I may not be a top notch religious person for many reason but if someone thinks I'am going to not love them (treat them as I would treat myself) just because they're a homosexual, they've got another thought coming.

If hard pressed, I would relay the importance of seed. But really now, we all know, all seeds need not come to fruition. Even though a God said/promised there would be enough provisions to handle whatever; no prejudice meant against any community.