Order of the Eastern Star-Free Mason.. (Jewish, Satan, God, Christians)
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ptsum---this is outside of the scope of this thread, but the Council of Nicaea didn't decide New Testament canon. Constantine was given a bible, the contents of which, we don't know. There were 23 undisputed "books" of what is now the New Testament prior to the Council of Nicaea, and the canon wasn't officially decided until the Council of Carthage, 60 years after Constantine died. Despite popular opinion, pre-Carthage canons tended to be smaller than what was decided at Carthage rather than larger (which is the common belief).
Sorry, I have this thing about the Council of Nicaea, I just can't let any argument about it go.
I won't argue this point with you,but it is generally understood that Constantine is considered the godfather of the First Christian Bible since he inspected,edited,approved, and paid for it to the commissioned. I guess if you have enough money you can do anything as Emperor.
You just may be correct!!
In any case I was extremely uncomfortable with their ritual performed at the funeral home.....
Just kept my head down and eyes averted
My husband brought his ring home and many of the books....I put them away, out of sight
Don't know why he didn't leave the ring on him..the apron and I believe vest went to eternity with him
The ritual performed at the funeral home is in no means meant to be uncomfortable, it is to show a great deal of respect for a member of this fraternity who has passed away and there really was no reason for you to keep your head down or your eyes averted, in fact I would have encouraged you to have held your head up and watch the ceremony, for it is the one thing that this fraternity can do to honor a departed brother. As for the ring, we generally do not advise the family to let the ring be buried with the departed brother, because there may be a member of the family who is also a member of the fraternity and it would be a great honor to pass on that ring and books.
Couple of thoughts, Travis, and then I feel I've said my peace.
First, on your closing statement about scriptures, sorry, but that just doesn't fly. I'm simply making my arguments from a Christian standpoint and the church should not HAVE to require scripture memorization. A believer should want to learn it. Any Christian who knows more catechisms than scripture can't blame the church, they blame themselves. No one forces them to join the lodge and no one forces them to join the church....so it comes down to which texts are most important to you. The point was commitment to Christ vs. commitment to the lodge.
You kept saying 'Masonry isn't a religion', 'the lodge isn't a church'....whatever.
Shriners are 'advanced' masons, right?
and what's that building called?
Oh yeah, I remember, an Oasis Temple.....nothing religious about that..
As for memorization, a Christian should know more scripture than sports statistics, movie quotes, song lyrics, or ER Plotlines. How many can honestly say that? It has little to do with lodges, songs, or sports, but has more to do with peoples' priorities in regard to the Church.
Shriners aren't "advanced Masons". If anything, the Shrine is the closest thing to the Eagles of the whole works. I'm not a Shriner, so I can't really speak to what all is taught in the Shrine.
As for the building being called a "Temple", it's because it's symbolic of King Solomon's Temple. The building of King Solomon's Temple is likewise symbolic of building one's own character.
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Also, how can a Christian be alright with this quote from you: Any view of Christ is acceptable? Seriously, this should be as plain as black and white...
Umm, that was a quote from one of the webpages somebody posted, not me. I, as a Christian, won't say that any view of Christ is okey-dokey as far as Salvation is concerned. In lodges, the question isn't asked just as it isn't asked in the Kiwanis, Rotary, or Sons of Norway--it's outside the scope of the institution.
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207
If you're OK with being involved with freemasonry, that's between you and God. This forum is a place where everyone can share their views and opinions and that's all I've done in this thread. The information is out there.....for anyone seriously looking just google and/or go to a Christian bookstore and buy some books/information on this. These aren't my ideas, I was taught these things about freemasonry through research and prayer.
The problems with so many of these books are that they're written with an agenda. Part of the issue is that the writers of these books are essentially recycling ideas that are 150 years old. When those who came up with the original idea are debunked, then there are issues with the books that came afterward. Please don't think that I just flippantly decided to join the lodge without doing any research first. I have spent countless hours researching that very thing over the last 8 years.
Wildberries, please tell me where you are seeing that Masons or anything affiliated with them say anything about promoting Jesus or being Christian? You seem to have a real problem with a possible hypocrisy issue, so I ask, where is the hypocrisy? I mentioned in a previous post on this thread that the Order of the Eastern Star already covers this issue. What more do you need?
Actually, I have just always been told it was Bible Based club and I really never checked into it until recently. I realize there is truth and fiction out there and it's what we choose to believe.
I myself being a Christian could not pray in the same room with any other religion and act like we are all praying to the same God. Some of these religions have MANY gods. That sounds like the Tower of babel to me. We know how God dealt with that.
If you believe in the Holy Bible it tells us Jesus is the Truth and the Way. Being Christian and sitting there praying with some that don't even come close to believing in Jesus I would say is blasphemy to the Christian God.
Now before you say I'm not tolerate of other religions , I have no problem in conversation or participating in events with people of other faith, but when it comes to prayer I would rather know there are all Christians in the room speaking to the SAME God.
If you have a problem with facing the reality of Christianity I suggest that you look up the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. and you will see how Christianity and the Catholic Church were highly influenced by the worship of the sun God " Sol Invictus " and how the pagan emperor Constantine commissioned the first Christian Bible.
As you can see many have broken away from the Catholic church also due to the teachings that some have felt to be NOT TRUTH!!
Now before you say I'm not tolerate of other religions , I have no problem in conversation or participating in events with people of other faith, but when it comes to prayer I would rather know there are all Christians in the room speaking to the SAME God.
How do you know Christians are praying to the SAME God? How do you even know that a Christian is a Christian in deed and not just someone who claims to be a 'Christian'?
It sure is true that I do not claim to be a Christian, but I might be more of a Christian than those who only pay lip service to Christianity.
And even if I don’t consider myself a Christian, I’m still baptised as a Protestant.
One of the basic missions of the Freemasons is to destroy the Catholic Church. That in and of itself is proof that it's pretty much "pure evil vs. pure truth"...The church even has a papal encyclical on Freemasonry.
Yikes! In over 20 years of being a Freemason and belonging to the York and Scottish Rites and the Shrine, serving as Master of my local lodge, attending several national meetings of Freemasons, and serving as Grand Master of a York Rite body, I have never heard, read, or seen one word or act seeking to "destroy the Catholic Church." Has there been criticism of narrow-minded sectarianism? Certainly. But critique, so far as I know, hardly rises to an agenda of seeking destruction.
Among the primary hallmarks of all Freemasonry are tolerant, free thinking, association respecting divergent beliefs but agreeing that Man can be fundamentally improved by building an "inner temple" under the guidance of a Supreme Being. Each man's faith is his own, individual matter. We meet to encourage each other on our personal journeys and, in the process, make the world a better, safer, more tolerant and understanding place.
For some reason what I have outlined is unacceptable to the Catholic Church. Yes, there have been, I believe, 21 official Catholic Church condemnations of Freemasonry since 1738. The most recent, I think, was in 1983 when the Sacred Congregation [Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, prefect, now Pope Benedict XVI] stated: "The Church's negative position on Masonic association ... remain unaltered, since their principles have always been regarded as irreconcilable with the Church's doctrine. Hence, joining them remains prohibited by the Church. Catholics enrolled in Masonic associations are involved in serious sin and may not approach holy Communion."
Freemasons do not ask what religious beliefs a petitioning member may have. We do assure that a candidate believes in a Supreme Being. We advise him that it is expected that he will look into himself and build his own "inner temple." But that is his work, subject to his beliefs, and within the parameters of his individual faith. As his brothers we encourage his journey...but that journey is his own in the company of his Supreme Being.
Freemasonry doesn't seek to destroy the Catholic or any other church. Like hopeful people of all creeds, or no creed at all, we simply work for a better world.
Originally Posted by wildberries61How do you know Christians are praying to the SAME God? How do you even know that a Christian is a Christian in deed and not just someone who claims to be a 'Christian'?
It sure is true that I do not claim to be a Christian, but I might be more of a Christian than those who only pay lip service to Christianity.
And even if I don’t consider myself a Christian, I’m still baptised as a Protestant.
I am quit sure the churches I attend are of CHRISTIAN faith. This is why I said I would not just enter a building with just all religions. If a person says they are Christian it is not my job to decide how good of a Christian he is that's between him and God.
Christians can usually see someone isn't living to the standards of Christianity, God convicts us on our way of living if you have a RELATIONSHIP with HIM. There's more then just claiming the "TITLE".
I understand some Christians use this title broadly. This is what it's like to live in a free society. You will find Christians who find other Christians denomination the wrong one. Go figure that Christianity could have so many sects to it.
Just because you were baptized and if you have out right denied Jesus then I guess you would know longer be considered a Christian. Not to say the door is not still wide open for you to return back to the Christian God.
I am quit sure the churches I attend are of CHRISTIAN faith.
So you are saying that Christians cannot practise their religion in a building which is not obviously connected with the Christian faith?
And how do you know that the people in the building are of the Christian faith anyway? Some people from other religions visit a Christian church to pray there to their own god in a quiet and serene environment most churches provide.
(And of course there are the many horror movies in which people of other religions practice their religion in a Christian church.)
All I'm saying is that appearances can be deceiving.
I mean even the Nazis acknowledged that people with blond hair and blue eyes could be Jewish instead of Arian. That is why they insisted on Jews wearing the David Star so they could be recognised with just a quick glance.
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Just because you were baptized and if you have out right denied Jesus then I guess you would know longer be considered a Christian. Not to say the door is not still wide open for you to return back to the Christian God
I know, but I am secure in the knowledge that I am following the right path.
WOW!! How did we get from Freemasonry & Eastern Star to Nazis ? no disrespect here folks but I think we're getting extremely way off-line.
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How do you even know that a Christian is a Christian in deed and not just someone who claims to be a 'Christian'?
I mean even the Nazis acknowledged that people with blond hair and blue eyes could be Jewish instead of Arian. That is why they insisted on Jews wearing the David Star so they could be recognised with just a quick glance.
