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Well magic (God) abracadabraing the universe into existence makes no sense to me.
Well I see it this way, considering that very powerful moment we can only call " The Beginning"; If we exclude a God, and give the universe's beginning over to itself, I just can't see it beginning itself from " Nothing." Put your mind in the moment; There is nothing> # and then suddenly something just crackles into existence, all on its own! This is asking " More than a faith would!" Or at the least, equal to a serious type of faith> in that moment! One must believe that something VERY powerful just pushed itself into reality and made its way into a foundation so great, that all life's foundations were created by this incredible moment! Just by chance!
Now, wether one views this as a big bang, or a little crackle that just slowly germinated over time, its a chance view that I don't need to take an even greater chance on being real. Not when there are other options which are more optimistic and reasonable. This belief that evolution evolved itself into reality independant of anything, is just as magical as a God doing it in my view; both views are magical. Magic cannot be subtracted from either view, both beginnings have their religious componants to it; it requires just as much faith in either view.
Both views have a spiritual componant, or a divine componant; both views can be argued or snobbed at and ignored as meaningless. Depending on what side of your brain highly influences you, it must be decided.
Well I see it this way, considering that very powerful moment we can only call " The Beginning"; If we exclude a God, and give the universe's beginning over to itself, I just can't see it beginning itself from " Nothing." Put your mind in the moment; There is nothing> # and then suddenly something just crackles into existence, all on its own! This is asking " More than a faith would!" Or at the least, equal to a serious type of faith> in that moment! One must believe that something VERY powerful just pushed itself into reality and made its way into a foundation so great, that all life's foundations were created by this incredible moment! Just by chance!
Now, wether one views this as a big bang, or a little crackle that just slowly germinated over time, its a chance view that I don't need to take an even greater chance on being real. Not when there are other options which are more optimistic and reasonable. This belief that evolution evolved itself into reality independant of anything, is just as magical as a God doing it in my view; both views are magical. Magic cannot be subtracted from either view, both beginnings have their religious componants to it; it requires just as much faith in either view.
Both views have a spiritual componant, or a divine componant; both views can be argued or snobbed at and ignored as meaningless. Depending on what side of your brain highly influences you, it must be decided.
Erm, what does this have to do with the theory of biological evolution, which is not about ultimate origins, but about genetic change in a population that is inherited over several generations?
I actually agree with all the definitions you provided of evolution, with the exception of the term " Chance." Thats where we basically differ. Evolution is genetic mutations , but I do not agree they were chance ignited, I believe they were purposefully ignited by the divine. And I believe the beginning of all scientific theory came from a search for the divine. And your view of evolution excludes the divine, while history does not. History is the springboard for any definition of science and evolution; while modern evolutionist are comfortable with ignoring the history, I simply am not.
Historically evolution was ignited by the divine , it was the only thing outside of our system to account for what you are calling " Chance." Evolution emerged because it had an emergant behind it. Evolution became real because it had a reality behind it, not some sort of happenstance self igniting zoomzilla great power from nothing which just happen to ignite the greatest things that exist in physical reality.
I cannot, for the life of reason within me, give the existing world over to a chance beginning; it just makes no sense to me.
It is true that many early and noted scientists were religious folk. However, as centuries of discoveries unfolded, it became apparent that "God did it" was a tautology that doesn't actually explain anything, and actually induces a bias in our conclusions. If "God did it" does it for you, that's fine, but as Neil deGrass Tyson said, if that is the only explanation you can come up with, I don't need you in the laboratory mucking up the experiments.
I have read all presented to me, for some strange reason you think me not agreeing with it, is ignoring it. Thats because your trying to convince, I am not. I am simply expressing my views; you need to change them, and If I don't change, then I'm ignoring in your book. And I understand that, you need people to change just as much as those theist you complain about need people to change. There is absolutely no difference in your desire and theirs.
If you want your views to live in a bubble, isolated from the rest of humanity, why bother posting them at all?
Why bother reading them if you think they are in a bubble?
I don't thihnk they are in a bubble, which is why I respond to them. You, however, apparently believe that you can post your opinions on a public forum and have them survive without comment. Poor assumption, dude.
The only way you can continue to hold many of your views is to ignore reality (facts) and I cannot understand why anyone would want to do that...What purpose can it possibly serve?
I don't thihnk they are in a bubble, which is why I respond to them. You, however, apparently believe that you can post your opinions on a public forum and have them survive without comment. Poor assumption, dude.
I don't assume any such thing. Whats poor is your assumption that I do.
Erm, what does this have to do with the theory of biological evolution, which is not about ultimate origins, but about genetic change in a population that is inherited over several generations?
Right because the TOE is so weak that scientists have to make up another theory just to explain how the single celled organism formed in the first place. Why do people keep changing the definition of evolution just to get others to accept it (if that doesn't work they just throw out any adjective synonymous with unintelligent)? Bottom line evolution claims that all life on earth came from a single celled organism that came from primordial soup. There's so much wrong with this line of reasoning.
It is true that many early and noted scientists were religious folk. However, as centuries of discoveries unfolded, it became apparent that "God did it" was a tautology that doesn't actually explain anything, and actually induces a bias in our conclusions. If "God did it" does it for you, that's fine, but as Neil deGrass Tyson said, if that is the only explanation you can come up with, I don't need you in the laboratory mucking up the experiments.
Well if "God did it" is not sufficient enough for you, then please share with us how did this single celled organism form from primordial soup? Where did the ingredients for this primordial soup come from? How did`the single celled organism sustain all the diverse life that we see today when there were no plants, which means that there was NO OZONE to protect from UV rays which would ultimately kill any life trying to form from that primordial soup? How did we go from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction? What came first the chicken or the egg?
Your answer...."The process was slow and took billions of years but eventually it got it right". Maybe "God done it" is not nearly as fanciful as the "time god/probability god did it" argument for evolution.
Last edited by Bar'el; 03-20-2012 at 12:51 AM..
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