Heaven is the Home of Peace. No evil will exist in it. (myth, prophets)

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Na'vi

No temptation equates to lobotomized. Thanks but no thanks.

Your prerogative. All things come down to be our own choices. All we can do is be certain we make our choices based upon knowledge and not simply the word of others.

[Na'vi]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

Your prerogative. All things come down to be our own choices. All we can do is be certain we make our choices based upon knowledge and not simply the word of others.

So if your knowledge does not emanate from the words of others, from whence does it come?

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Na'vi

So if your knowledge does not emanate from the words of others, from whence does it come?

All Knowledge, including yours comes from verifying the words of others by all sources available to us.

I may believe the words of another and utilize them as knowledge, but I really do not know a thing until I have seen and verified it myself.

Knowledge may usually begin with the words of others, but we really do not know until we ourselves have verified it.

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by miticoman

As you know Islam and Christianity have roots in the Jewish religion ( better they comes from the Israelite cult ) infact they are called the Abrahamic cults, may I ask you if there are some specific reasons that force you to think about a hypothetical distinction in yours faith

let us take our story from the start .


Allah wanted to create a human
from dried clay of altered mud and that was Adam.
and when Allah have made him and have breathed his Spirit into Adam .
Allah ordered the angels and Iblis (satan) to fall down making obeisance to him.
all of them obeyed the order of Allah except Iblis
he refused and was haughty and was one of the disobedient to Allah.

(Allah) said: "O Iblis (Satan)! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with Both My Hands . Are you too proud (to fall prostrate to Adam) or are you one of the high exalted?"

[Iblis (Satan)] said: "I am better than he. You created me from fire, and You created him from clay."

(Allah) said: "Then get out from here; for verily you are outcast.

"And verily My Curse is on you till the Day of Recompense."

[Iblis (Satan)] said: "My Lord! Give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are resurrected."

(Allah) said: "Verily! You are of those allowed respite."

"Till the Day of the time appointed."

[Iblis (Satan)] said: "By Your Might, then I will surely mislead them all,

"Except Your chosen slaves amongst them (i.e. faithful, obedient, true believers of Islamic Monotheism)."

Allah) said:
Surely. as regards My servants, you have no authority, over them except those who follow you of the deviators

"The Truth is - and the Truth I say -

That I will fill Hell with you [Iblis (Satan)] and those of them (mankind) that follow you, together."

*****************
Allah created Eve from a crooked rib of Adam

and said to Adam :
Iblis is an enemy to you and to your wife , So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you will be distressed.

O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish and do not approach this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.

Then Shaitan (Satan) whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before); he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save that you should become angels or become of the immortals."

And he [Shaitan (Satan)] swore by Allah to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well-wishers for you both."

So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to cover themselves with the leaves of Paradise (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Shaitan (Satan) is an open enemy unto you?"

They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers."

(Allah) said: "Get down, one of you is an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Hawwa' (Eve), and Shaitan (Satan)]. On earth will be a dwelling-place for you and an enjoyment for a time."

He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e. resurrected)."

to be continued.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

Keep in mind those who choose the path that leads to heaven will have overcome the desire to sin. They will have free will,and it is by their free will to serve God(swt) they have entered heaven. They entered Heaven partially because they do not have the desire to do evil.

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

In a perfect world a person with free will and not wanting to sin would be able to remain sinless. Earth is not perfect and people do succumb to temptation. Heaven is a perfect place, there is no temptation, people will be able to live their desire to not sin without facing temptations.

You miss the point dear chap. If your god can produce such a situation in 'heaven' where all have free-will yet won't/can't 'sin', why did he not produce the same situation on Earth?

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Then it only left to ask....

If your god can have a situation in 'heaven' where one will have free will and the ability to have whatever one wants but will never think or do any bad thing, why did your god not create the same situation here on Earth?

you want me to answer you on behalf of Allah
well , i am not a messenger or prophet from him and i might say something might be correct or wrong
but i tell you that Allah did not only create human but he also created angels and he made the angels not to make any sin

Allah decided that for the angels and decided that for the human and the Jinn.

and to be on the safe side i will answer you from the words of Allah



**********************
And He is the Forgiving, the Loving,

Lord of the Throne of Glory,

Doer of what He will.
**********************

Say: O people! indeed there has come to you the truth from your Lord,
therefore whoever goes aright, he goes aright only for the good of his own soul,
and whoever goes astray, he goes astray only to the detriment of it,
and I am not a custodian over you.
**************************************

Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself.
And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss.
No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden.
And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).

************************************


Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested.

And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allah knows all that before putting them to test).


********************


And the soul and Him Who made it perfect,

Then He inspired it to understand what is right and wrong for it;

He will indeed be successful who purifies it,

And he will indeed fail who corrupts it.
********************************


Have We not made for him two eyes,

And a tongue and two lips?

And shown him the two ways (good and evil)?
************************************************** ****

[Na'vi]

Those are words from a book written by men, not Allah, sorry.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by truth_teller

you want me to answer you on behalf of Allah
well , i am not a messenger or prophet from him and i might say something might be correct or wrong
but i tell you that Allah did not only create human but he also created angels and he made the angels not to make any sin

Allah decided that for the angels and decided that for the human and the Jinn.

and to be on the safe side i will answer you from the words of Allah

So you can't actually answer the question. Fair enough!

[LuminousTruth]

Originally Posted by Rafius

You miss the point dear chap. If your god can produce such a situation in 'heaven' where all have free-will yet won't/can't 'sin', why did he not produce the same situation on Earth?

Good point Raf,

I never signed a contract this this supposed Lord. Why should this supposed being have any authority over a sentient being such as myself? Does he take such authority by force? Then he is a tyrant, and tyrants are evil and stain all heavens.

But more to the O.P. :

If heaven is the home of peace, from where did Satan gather his armies? Truly, such silly angels must have had a reason to rebel, such as tyranny and a feeling of lacking peace.

Can't speak for Allah? Yet here you are, talking with authority about your knowledge of other supposed dimensions. Seams to me like you O.P. only speak for Allah when it suits you.

Heaven is a mystery, just like the gods were to your pagan ancestors which you hope are in hell.
Reality is a mystery, and only science is truly shedding light on its patterns and outcomes.

I will most certainly won't shed a bit of respect for a likely fictional place and its fictional ruler... most especially since it fails to educate its own creation properly yet condemns most of it anyway. Where is the personal responsibility of all-powerful beings? As was said in Spider-man (pardon the literature) "with great power comes great responsibility" and it follows then that with all and ultimate power comes all and ultimate responsibility. What a failure on God's part, to have people in hell.

[weaam]

Originally Posted by Rafius

You miss the point dear chap. If your god can produce such a situation in 'heaven' where all have free-will yet won't/can't 'sin', why did he not produce the same situation on Earth?

You can know the answer even if you're an atheist , just a little logic if Allah ( our God) produced the same situation in heaven on earth would haven't created us Mainly otherwise, Allah is able on everything but there is significance of our presence here he have not created us except we should worship him and this significance of our presence NOT for other "'heaven'" on earth so, it is the standard test ,through we go to heaven or hell after death, I know well you as an atheist do not Believe all these wordsor even you see it Nonsense but if ask you now ,Why do not put two possibilities, Why are you confident that there is nothing after death??? it mere passage Means it is not a real life