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Old 06-20-2012, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
617 posts, read 696,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Good point Raf,

I never signed a contract this this supposed Lord. Why should this supposed being have any authority over a sentient being such as myself? Does he take such authority by force? Then he is a tyrant, and tyrants are evil and stain all heavens.

But more to the O.P. :

If heaven is the home of peace, from where did Satan gather his armies? Truly, such silly angels must have had a reason to rebel, such as tyranny and a feeling of lacking peace.

Can't speak for Allah? Yet here you are, talking with authority about your knowledge of other supposed dimensions. Seams to me like you O.P. only speak for Allah when it suits you.

Heaven is a mystery, just like the gods were to your pagan ancestors which you hope are in hell.
Reality is a mystery
, and only science is truly shedding light on its patterns and outcomes.
I will most certainly won't shed a bit of respect for a likely fictional place and its fictional ruler... most especially since it fails to educate its own creation properly yet condemns most of it anyway. Where is the personal responsibility of all-powerful beings? As was said in Spider-man (pardon the literature) "with great power comes great responsibility" and it follows then that with all and ultimate power comes all and ultimate responsibility. What a failure on God's part, to have people in hell.

As long as science is the path of truth why it does not Revealed to you these things mysterious ?Why is it still not know whether there is life after death or not , tell me why if you cann't ,I can tell you why ??
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,592,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
As long as science is the path of truth why it does not Revealed to you these things mysterious ?Why is it still not know whether there is life after death or not , tell me why if you cann't ,I can tell you why ??
Do you even begin to understand how it sounds when you claim to have knowledge Science does not?
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,852,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
You can know the answer even if you're an atheist , just a little logic if Allah ( our God) produced the same situation in heaven on earth would haven't created us Mainly otherwise, Allah is able on everything but there is significance of our presence here he have not created us except we should worship him and this significance of our presence NOT for other "'heaven'" on earth so, it is the standard test ,through we go to heaven or hell after death, I know well you as an atheist do not Believe all these wordsor even you see it Nonsense but if ask you now ,Why do not put two possibilities, Why are you confident that there is nothing after death??? it mere passage Means it is not a real life
I appreciate that English is not your mother-tongue weaam but I'm afraid I haven't got a bloody clue about what you are talking about.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:55 PM
 
2,766 posts, read 2,664,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Na'vi View Post
Those are words from a book written by men, not Allah, sorry.



every year about three millions muslim come to the house of Allah in Makkah from all over the world to perform Hajj,
they spend a lot of money and time to perform that.

what make those people to do so?

the answer is it is the will of Allah

how do i know that it is the will of Allah?

Allah said that in his book the Noble Quran.
And (remember) when We prepared for Abraham the place of the (holy) House, saying: Ascribe thou no thing as partner unto Me, and purify My House for those who make the round (thereof) and those who stand and those who bow and make prostration.

And proclaim unto mankind the pilgrimage. They will come unto thee on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every deep ravine. The Noble Quran.



the Quran is more than 1400 years old and you can see what the above verses are talking about in these pictures.


such thing can not happen by a book written by men.









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Old 06-20-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,852,858 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
every year about three millions muslim come to the house of Allah in Makkah from all over the world to perform Hajj,
they spend a lot of money and time to perform that.

what make those people to do so?

the answer is it is the will of Allah

how do i know that it is the will of Allah?

Allah said that in his book the Noble Quran.


The Maha Kumbh Mela is a Hindu pilgrimage in which a total of 70 million people converge on the Ganges to wash away their sins in the river.

what make those people to do so?

the answer is it is the will of Brahma

how do i know that it is the will of Brahma?

Brahma said that in his book the Guru Granth Sahib.

Are you beginning to understand truth_teller??
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,066,949 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
every year about three millions muslim come to the house of Allah in Makkah from all over the world to perform Hajj,
they spend a lot of money and time to perform that.

what make those people to do so?

the answer is it is the will of Allah

how do i know that it is the will of Allah?

Allah said that in his book the Noble Quran.
And (remember) when We prepared for Abraham the place of the (holy) House, saying: Ascribe thou no thing as partner unto Me, and purify My House for those who make the round (thereof) and those who stand and those who bow and make prostration.

And proclaim unto mankind the pilgrimage. They will come unto thee on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every deep ravine. The Noble Quran.



the Quran is more than 1400 years old and you can see what the above verses are talking about in these pictures.


such thing can not happen by a book written by men.
You may be surprised to discover just how little income the Hajj brings into Mecca. Many pilgrims bring tents to stay in and their own food. Very little is done on the Hajj except fasting and Prayers. The Hajj is a 4-5 day annual event that occurs onthe 8th-12th day of the Month of "Dhul-Hijjah" Althought many arrive about 3 days early and stay a day or 2 after. Since this is a wholly time for them, very little is spent on frivolous things. also it is a time of fasting, very little is spent on food,nothing is spent on entertainment.

Quote:
As we said before the Hajj is regarded as the largest annual gathering in the world. About 2.5 million people did it in 2009. It is estimated that the Hajj pilgrims spend about $2 billion during the Hajj.
SOURCE

That is very far from being all profit. It costs the City of Mecca nearly that much to prepare for the 4 days of Hajj.

Much more is generated by Tourists about $30 billion USD annually, but that is dwarfed by the $600 Billion USD of the oil sales. About 2,000,000 pilgrims come annually for the Hajj and currently that is about the Maximum number that can be accommodated. Throughout the year there are about 15-25 Million tourists in Saudi. They do spend quite a bit. But, that is not Hajj and not an obligation.

To a Muslim the required Hajj can only be done during the 4 days of the 8th-12th of Dhul-Hijjah. any other time is not the pilgrimage we are required to do.


To put it in Perspective NYC had 48 Million tourists in 2010 spending 31 Billion.

SOURCE


Texas about 1/2 the size of Saudi has an average annual Tourist income of 23 Billion

SOURCE
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:48 AM
 
2,766 posts, read 2,664,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by miticoman View Post
As you know Islam and Christianity have roots in the Jewish religion ( better they comes from the Israelite cult ) infact they are called the Abrahamic cults, may I ask you if there are some specific reasons that force you to think about a hypothetical distinction in yours faith

Allah wanted to create a human
from dried clay of altered mud and that was Adam.......


.....They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers."

(Allah) said: "Get down, one of you is an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Hawwa' (Eve), and Shaitan (Satan)]. On earth will be a dwelling-place for you and an enjoyment for a time."

He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e. resurrected)."

to be continued.



now Adam and Eve are the only human on this earth.
they have asked Allah forgiveness and they have repented and Allah forgave them and the story of the sin is closed.

Adam lived on earth for about 1000 years and he is considered the first prophet and teach the commands he gets from Allah to his people and teach them to worship their creator .

after Adam died , his people continued to apply his teaching and the teaching of his sons and the prophets after Adam but gradually they started to worship things other than Allah.

then Allah send the first messenger to them and that was prophet Noah peace be upon them.

Noah told them to worship only Allah and repeated that to them for 950 years

But only few people believed him and followed him and the disbelievers Allah finished them by the flood.

As the time and years pass and new generations start they start to worship things other than Allah and they do prohibited things .
Then Allah send another messenger .

There were many messengers between Noah and Ibrahim in a period of 1000 years.

Prophet Ibrahim is the one who built the house of Allah in Makkah 4000 years ago

And Allah told him to tell the people to come and perform the Hajj to his house.

The Muslims are doing that since that time.


There were many prophets between Ibrahim and prophet Musa
And for a period of time of too many years, and similar thing between Musa and Isa (Jesus) .

The main of message of all those prophet and messengers is to worship Allah alone without associating anything with him (monotheism) .
After 610 since Allah raised Isa (Jesus) up unto Himself in Heaven

Allah send the prophet Muhammad Peace be upon them.
Now 1422 years have passed and Allah did not send a new messenger and he will not send because he said that Muhammad is the final messenger and the message is completed and it is all in his final book the Quran and Allah said
Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Reminder (the Qur'an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption) .


the quran is not only for muslims but for all the worlds
Allah said
Blessed is He who sent down the criterion (the Qur'an) to His servant, that it may be an admonition to the nations
(mankind and jinn).
and in another verse Allah said
Lo! it (the Qur'an) is naught else than a reminder for all peoples.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:59 AM
 
120 posts, read 211,718 times
Reputation: 175
There is no heaven of course and I also don't really expect there to be a heaven.

I believe that I am wholly my brain and when my brain will stop working then I will just cease to "exist" and my molecules and atoms will return to the universe.

But that's a good thing actually because then I would no longer feel any pain and I will no longer have to suffer from anything.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:35 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,063,228 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
As long as science is the path of truth why it does not Revealed to you these things mysterious ?Why is it still not know whether there is life after death or not , tell me why if you cann't ,I can tell you why ??
Although you cannot tell me where the spirit you might imagine you have goes during deep sleep,

My point was that a character like Abraham's imaginary creature would make its abode impure by its nature and residence there. There are more mysteries solved by the application of good scientific techniques then the mysteries that religions come up with when they make up their wild stories.

My second point was that if such a mythical place as Heaven is the home of peace, why was it not so in the past, hence the story of the life of Iblis (Satan)?

The reason we still do not assuredly know whether there is life after death is answered by the reasons we most assuredly do not know whether there is life in a rock. A simple answer in a simile. You most certainly cannot assure me that the air your breath (for perhaps there are no rocks near you) is dead.

The good scientific technique often employs a method of assuming the least, so to science there is no life if there is no death, and living in the sky with diamonds would not be considered death, so then there is no life after death, there is only the continuation of life after perhaps sleep... and if all the cells in your body which make you alive die, then you are dead and it would thus be impossible to live in the sky, let alone in a blissful high for which there would be no basis to have without a brain. and If you are recreated in any manner that wouldn't really be you, but just a clone of you who thought it was the real you.

There is no life after death for that baby who you used to be and whose memories you no longer even have. The people you used to be in the past are most assuredly dead as atheists, Allah killed them when he let you live a second longer and gave you time to change, forget, and grow.

So if creatures as the ones Abraham and the rest of our ancestors imagined up were so peaceful, they would not live in submission but in freedom. The tradition of Sacred Theology which Lord Siddhartha Gautama founded would never have been able to find fault in them, as deluded gods which imagine themselves and pretend to be creators of universes. The same goes for the imagination of heavens. If God's abode was everything and everywhere, that is where you would find heaven. Evil exists
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
617 posts, read 696,729 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Do you even begin to understand how it sounds when you claim to have knowledge Science does not?

Not claim but what I know that Science recognizes that brain is still unable to discover facts universe
Particularly with regard to the beginning of life and after death so, total Dependence on not good Atheists waiting for them to discover the existence of God !!! While the mind has its limits do not exceed it at all , it Limited in time and space which is one of God's creation isn't it?
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