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personal suffering of children, of innocent men, women, and children all across the world.....including those who are born sick, and suffer from things out of their own control or anyone else's?
For myself, I'm not sure that the presence of suffering in the world would mean there's no God any more than the presence of joy in the world would mean there is one.
It appears to me that He's placed us in an environment that is more conducive to a wider range of experiences -- both bad and good -- for reasons on which I can only speculate.
For myself, I'm not sure that the presence of suffering in the world would mean there's no God any more than the presence of joy in the world would mean there is one.
It appears to me that He's placed us in an environment that is more conducive to a wider range of experiences -- both bad and good -- for reasons on which I can only speculate.
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....to your first point.....well, of course it does.....because a 'caring' god, would not want children and innocent people to suffer for no reason or fault of their own. simple.
...to your second point....fine....as a god, give a 'wide range of experiences...good and bad' as you put it......but how can a kid, born with cancer, unable to walk, or move, and dies in agony after a few months fit that description?
In your world where you can stand in judgment of God, ego-filled as you seem to be, but in my world, where I believe God to be omniscient, I believe that our suffering is a catalyst for understanding our insignificance in the world. Ours is to face our adversities with God's strength and be grateful for God's presence in all things.
No, I'm standing in judgement of your understanding of your god. As far as ego is concerned, it is not me who claims to know definitively who God is and his characteristics. I guess my friend should be thankful for that little lesson from your god, allowing his wife to suffer in extreme pain until she dies leaving two children who need her so badly.
If you do not know this living God than That is the answer to the question .....See if you do not know Him then others in the influences of the world do not know Him ....... There are people who do know Him but are overwhelmed by the lack of people who do not know Him .......See God gave us His Royal Son Jesus Christ for the earth to all who would be there to know this Creator Who is perfect in love and life....Where God Son is judgment for people to be judged of sin so we can find this God perfect in love , and life .... So the more people who know God in this truth and receive God and His blessing ....God will bring freedom from the suffering in the world .... So when we turn our back on God then He can not help us , because He gave this world to man , and will of man will dominate the world .... So God waits for man to ask for help , where God will help......
Logically, if there really were a lonely but omnipotent Creator God intent on making a Paradise for man herre on earth, He would not have required that we live a mortal life first, in a state of denial or fantasy, making up irrational fantasy stories to explain what couldn't be explained with the ignorance of the day, thus total ignorance and unhappiness about why we were placed here at all. He would have simply cut to the chase and created a heaven in the first place. After all, according to the bible, we've sone nothing but **** Him off since the beginnings of time as the bible defines it, thus bringing on a metaphorical fludd and other stories. Surviving in the desert (with not an iota of a trace now, btw...) for 40 years (hee hee...)
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Originally Posted by johnrain
Man, due to his sinful nature brought this upon himself.
But again.... uhhhhh... why? Why not just be perfect hominids in the first place? This is all so obviously a total fantasty..
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Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
These two paragraphs contradict themselves. How can God be all of these things yet has nothing to do with suffering? Can he not relieve ore eliminate suffering? If he can, then he must be charged with ALLOWING suffering. Also, if God can help us overcome all adversity, why do Christians die from cancer?
Any god that has the ability to eliminate this type of suffering but does nothing isn't deserving of any praise and worship.
Again, it's all a fantasy explanation to cover off the reality of our lives, steeped initially in ignorance but as we learn that we're just her by chance, due to the chance presentation of the right conditions that allowed and indeed promoted our arrival.
Contrary to that "perfect storm" theory, if such conditions did not arise here, then we'd not be here. Just like theres no life on the moon (wrong conditions) or on jupiter (wrong conditions), Pluto (wrong conditions). Mars, now perhaps in the past. Sure looks like it! We'll soon know, and that will put the boot-stomp to the "This is God's Perfect Earthly Paradise, made just for us superior humans!" nonsense.
personal suffering of children, of innocent men, women, and children all across the world.....including those who are born sick, and suffer from things out of their own control or anyone else's?
As a religious person, how do you answer that question?
I'd probably just answer you with another question. If there was a God, would life be perfect? Totally without hardships? 100% lacking in suffering? In other words, if suffering is proof that there is not a God, would the complete absense of suffering be proof that there was one?
....to your first point.....well, of course it does.....because a 'caring' god, would not want children and innocent people to suffer for no reason or fault of their own. simple.
But wouldn't that logic indicate that people who choose to have children, knowing that their children are going to suffer to some degree in this life, are themselves not "caring"?
In other words, if I seriously thought that making suffering possible were tantamount to "not caring", I would have made sure never to have children, lest they think I didn't care for them since I knew that if they existed at all, they'd suffer to some degree.
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...to your second point....fine....as a god, give a 'wide range of experiences...good and bad' as you put it......but how can a kid, born with cancer, unable to walk, or move, and dies in agony after a few months fit that description?
The only theory that's made sense to me (thus far), while still leaving some control in the hands of those who seem to suffer, is that people plan out their lives prior to birth for the purpose of self-growth. But that gets into reincarnation which is a whole 'nother ball-o-wax.
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Same ol' same ol'
If there was a God, would life be perfect? Totally without hardships? 100% lacking in suffering? In other words, if suffering is proof that there is not a God, would the complete absense of suffering be proof that there was one?
