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God doesnt ask anyone to break his laws...murder is wrong..period!
Respectably, I disagree.
In the Torah, stoning was the prescribed punishment for several transgressions (blasphemy, apostasy and in some cases adultery). The Bible explains when capital punishment is necessary and the Talmud explains how this justice is adjudicated (by the great Sanhedrin).
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satanoid
I don't believe in souls, but yes. You can do whatever you like with my soul... I don't need it.
And if I did believe in souls, hell, etc - most certainly yes... the suffering of one is less than the suffering of a thousand.
Well - now see, if you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you wouldn't need to do that, because He already paid the price for your sins. He did the same for everyone. So if those 1000 souls you are referring to are going to go to hell for any reason, it's their own choice to do that. Nothing you could do would change that.
But just so you're sure that is something you would do, we're talking about eternity - never ending. Have you ever experienced what it's like to lose your mind, even for a brief period of time? Have you ever felt that you were losing the ability to control yourself, and that nothing in your head made sense? Have you ever truly experienced what it's like to be mentally ill? Have you ever heard different voices in your head that were taunting you non-stop? Have you ever experienced utter depression, hatred, bitterness and darkness within your soul?
Now, multiply that by 1000 times, and combine it with the pain of sticking your hand on a red hot grill and not letting go - or crawl into a blistering hot oven from which you can't escape.
After going through all that, come back and tell us if you're still willing to suffer an eternity in hellfire.
Last edited by Pathwalker; 10-21-2007 at 10:19 AM..
People often say that they would be willing to die for their beliefs... and many have, through centuries of brutal oppression of religious freedom.
While I doubt that most people would be willing to die for their god these days, I wonder who would be willing to kill for god.
What if god commanded you to kill your first born?
If God spoke to me today and commanded this, I believe that I would have to do it realizing that life and death are both in His hands. And since I believe in the eventual restoration of all to God, then I believe that God would raise him or her up to life again. I believe that God already knows what is in the heart of a person and does not need to test him or her, but the test is for our benefit.
I don’t believe that God would ask me to do this today, because in these last days, He has spoken to us through His Son and there are no instructions in His word that believers are to kill their firstborn children. We are to show our love for God by following Jesus.
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What if god commanded you to kill your neighbor, to punish him for his wickedness?
Same as above. Today we are instructed to love and do good to all men. Ex: Titus 3:
“Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men. For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. But when the kindness of our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy…”
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If you knew of someone who's ideas were so dangerous, that it would drive thousands of souls away from god - would you be morally right in killing them?
I don’t believe that it would be right for me to kill them. My goal would be to love them. And I don’t believe that this person’s ideas would be able to drive thousands of souls away from God, the Creator forever. Nothing is that powerful.
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Would you sacrifice your own immortal soul to save the soul of others?
I don’t believe that souls are immortal, but if they were, I would hope that I would have that kind of love. Jesus died for us and we are to follow Him. If you would do that, satanoid, it sounds like to me that you are a very compassionate person.
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Not even Jesus had to spend an eternity in hell to save people.
That’s right, Jesus tasted death for all people not eternal hell. Paul says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), not eternal hell.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-21-2007 at 12:57 PM..
Reason: clarification
If God spoke to me today and commanded this, I believe that I would have to do it realizing that life and death are both in His hands. And since I believe in the eventual restoration of all to God, then I believe that God would raise him or her up to life again.
You probably don't mean it like that, but this still scares me.
That you believe that it is all right to kill people because YOU believe God will resurrect them one day.
What if god commanded you to kill your first born?
The answer was:
Quote:
If God spoke to me today and commanded this, I believe that I would have to do it realizing that life and death are both in His hands.
God did command His people to do things that most of us would not agree with today. What matters is what God would instruct at that time and if I said that He was first in my life and trusted Him, then I would have to do what He said. He is my God. And yes, I do believe that God would resurrect them one day if it happened, as death will be abolished one day (1 Corinthians 15) Life and death are both in His hands. All things belong to Him . God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-21-2007 at 02:10 PM..
Reason: Clarification/ Addition
God did command His people to do things that most of us would not agree with today. What matters is what God would instruct at that time and if I said that He was first in my life and trusted Him, then I would have to do what He said. He is my God. And yes, I do believe that God would ressurect them one day if it happened, as death will be abolished one day (1 Corinthians 15) Life and death are both in His hands. God bless.
Somehow this is not making me feel better. I mean there are many serial killers who hear voices and such and are convinced that God commanded them to kill their victims.
Although they probably suffer from a mental illness, they believe exactly what you believe.
I just hope that you know better than they do.
The question then would be how would someone know that this was God who was commanding them. Posted earlier:
Quote:
I don’t believe that God would ask me to do this today, because in these last days, He has spoken to us through His Son and there are no instructions in His word that believers are to kill their firstborn children. We are to show our love for God by following Jesus.
The question then would be how would someone know that this was God who was commanding them.
True, but once you start to hear voices or have visions it will not be easy to stay rational. I mean right now I assume that you have no voices or visions troubling you so it is easy to think clearly.
I don’t believe that God would ask me to do this today, because in these last days, He has spoken to us through His Son and there are no instructions in His word that believers are to kill their firstborn children. We are to show our love for God by following Jesus.
and
"God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the ages." Hebrews 1
As I read the scriptures today, I don't see where Jesus tells any of His followers to kill their firstborn. So I suppose if Jesus Christ came back today (no vision) and instructed this, for whatever reason, this would be a different situation... and no, I am not hearing voices or having visions.
Great thread!
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-21-2007 at 02:11 PM..
I'm not sure what you are saying but have you read Matthew 10:34-39?
Quote:
Matthew 10 [Jesus speaking:] 34 Don't think that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came to bring the sword, not peace. 35 I came to turn sons against their fathers, daughters against their mothers, and daughters-in-law against their mothers-in-law. 36 Your worst enemies will be in your own family. 37 If you love your father or mother or even your sons and daughters more than me, you are not fit to be my disciples. 38 And unless you are willing to take up your cross and come with me, you are not fit to be my disciples. 39 If you try to save your life, you will lose it. But if you give it up for me, you will surely find it.
What would you do if you had this as a vision or heard it as God's voice?
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You probably don't mean it like that, but this still scares me.
I mean right now I assume that you have no voices or visions troubling you so it is easy to think clearly.
I'm not sure what you are saying but have you read Matthew 10:34-39?
