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If everyone lived their life that way, this would be a pleasant place indeed.
At least in your mind, right? But you can't speak for everyone else. So once again....all you have is your preferences. You don't have an objective morality--one that isn't subject to your whim, or my whim, or whoever is in charge.
You don't have an objective morality--one that isn't subject to your whim, or my whim, or whoever is in charge.
You're not going to win this one, try as you might. Reality and history has proven you wrong, and continues to do so.
It was once considered moral to enslave other humans. Though small pockets of it allegedly still exist, for the most part humanity has concluded that it is not.
It was once considered immoral for a woman to bare her ankle in public. And while backwards ass islamists still living in the 14th century still may feel like that, the more enlightened of humanity has decided that such a thing is, and was, completely silly.
It was once widely considered immoral, to the point that many states outright criminalized it, for couples to live together without being married, now it is commonplace and not given a second thought.
It was once considered moral to have gladiators fight in literal to the death combat. While modern sports can be dangerous, and do, from time to time, result in death, it is never intended to do so, and the people who participate know the risks going in.
When the bikini swimsuit was introduced in 1946, it caused quit the stir, and was denounced by many as "immoral". It wasn't until almost 20 years later that women in the US even started wearing them with any thing even approaching regularity, and yet now, they're par for the course and nobody even gives it a second thought.
You see, when it comes to hurting people (with intent and malice), it's pretty clear cut. I can make a fist and swing my arm all day long, and I've violated no moral code, unless and until your nose happens to be in the way. Likewise, I can take my assault rifle and put expensive holes into pieces of paper for hours, and have done nothing wrong, but put just one hole in a human who isn't a threat to my (or someone else's) life, and I've got a problem.
So, if you need some higher power telling you what's right and wrong, I feel for you, but I can pretty much figure it out on my own. But do me a favor, ask him if we had it wrong back in the day when a bare ankle caused scandal, or if we have it wrong now, when thousands of women run around in barely-there bikinis and nobody even notices. Let me know what he has to say about that, wouldya?
You're not going to win this one, try as you might. Reality and history has proven you wrong, and continues to do so.
It was once considered moral to enslave other humans. Though small pockets of it allegedly still exist, for the most part humanity has concluded that it is not.
It was once considered immoral for a woman to bare her ankle in public. And while backwards ass islamists still living in the 14th century still may feel like that, the more enlightened of humanity has decided that such a thing is, and was, completely silly.
It was once widely considered immoral, to the point that many states outright criminalized it, for couples to live together without being married, now it is commonplace and not given a second thought.
It was once considered moral to have gladiators fight in literal to the death combat. While modern sports can be dangerous, and do, from time to time, result in death, it is never intended to do so, and the people who participate know the risks going in.
When the bikini swimsuit was introduced in 1946, it caused quit the stir, and was denounced by many as "immoral". It wasn't until almost 20 years later that women in the US even started wearing them with any thing even approaching regularity, and yet now, they're par for the course and nobody even gives it a second thought.
You see, when it comes to hurting people (with intent and malice), it's pretty clear cut. I can make a fist and swing my arm all day long, and I've violated no moral code, unless and until your nose happens to be in the way. Likewise, I can take my assault rifle and put expensive holes into pieces of paper for hours, and have done nothing wrong, but put just one hole in a human who isn't a threat to my (or someone else's) life, and I've got a problem.
So, if you need some higher power telling you what's right and wrong, I feel for you, but I can pretty much figure it out on my own. But do me a favor, ask him if we had it wrong back in the day when a bare ankle caused scandal, or if we have it wrong now, when thousands of women run around in barely-there bikinis and nobody even notices. Let me know what he has to say about that, wouldya?
I have no idea how that little rant proves your point. You've demonstrated that different societies have different standards of morality. There is no objective morality if we go by what man says.
It changes with your whim, or the whim of society.
I have no idea how that little rant proves your point. You've demonstrated that different societies have different standards of morality. There is no objective morality if we go by what man says.
It changes with your whim, or the whim of society.
Or God's whim.
And if God DID say tomorrow that murder is moral and a tribute to him...you'd obey without question, yes?
I have no idea how that little rant proves your point. You've demonstrated that different societies have different standards of morality. There is no objective morality if we go by what man says.
It changes with your whim, or the whim of society.
Correct.
Also, how do we know Biblical morality is better than anyone else's?
I say, just go with what seems best...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss
Logic and common sense.
If everyone lived their life that way, this would be a pleasant place indeed.
I'm sure ten thousand years from now we'll all be viewed as horrible people for not providing everyone in Africa with a laptop, or for not taking vengeance on those who have harmed us enough, but...oh well. This works too.
I have no idea how that little rant proves your point. You've demonstrated that different societies have different standards of morality. There is no objective morality if we go by what man says.
That's my point.
There is no objective morality!!
It is you who is claiming there is, and that it comes from your version of gawd. Since you know everything there is to know, enlighten us...
Were we wrong when showing an ankle was a scandal, or are we wrong when barely-there bikinis are the standard, and nobody notices, or cares? How do you know?
Not among men, there isn't. So again, I ask: How do you pretend to have a morality that is better than anyone else? How do you pretend to sit in judgment of God? You can't even decide for yourself how we can condemn murder and rape among humans.
How do you pretend to have a morality that is better than anyone else?
I told you the foundation for my moral code. There may be something better out there, but I've not yet found it.
Quote:
How do you pretend to sit in judgment of God?
I'm not judging god, though what you mean when you use the term is quite different than what I mean. I'm judging humans, like yourself, who claim to speak for him.
I've asked you a question no less than twice now, and you have yet to even acknowldege it much less answer it. Based upon your gods objective morality, were we doing it wrong when a bare ankle was scandalous, or are we doing it wrong now where string bikinis are so normal nobody even thinks about it?
How do you know?
Quote:
You can't even decide for yourself how we can condemn murder and rape among humans.
Sure I can, and have. Apply the golden rule and reverse-golden rule, and what do they say about murder and rape?
Well, since I neither want to be murdered nor raped, nor would I like to see that happen to my loved ones (and even people I don't know), it's safe to assume they are condemnable actions.
See how easy that is?
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