This about sums it up right here! (exist, Jesus, religion)

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by TWD39

It's because atheists remain ignorant about Christianity.

Hardly.
Most atheists were raised as christers.
Seems that christians are ignorant about atheists, and prefer to stay that way.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by Vizio

Almost daily I see Christians on this board mocked by atheists and agnostics. It is usually in regards to homosexuality, at which point it is stated that a Christian that doesn't live by every command of the OT is a hypocrite. Honestly? I haven't seen anything to believe that you guys understand the idea that there is an Old Covenant, and a New Covenant. We are not a part of the Old Covenant.

Then what's the hatred of homosexuals and throwing out Leviticus quotes about?
I see it every day on CD and it deserves mocking and derision.

I don't see you commenting against those who post Leviticus.
Just because we quote the same books you do, and you don't like it, you say we're ignorant.
Might want to look at your own side of the aisle and correct them.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

but what was recorded had a serious purpose.

Perhaps but I think the tone and content of the conversation thus far shows that there are many who want to highlight the important point that - whatever the purpose - great or small - writing something that has a purpose is not evidence that the writings are actually true - the events in question really did happen.

I have no doubt there was a purpose to writing it all. I also have no doubt that as TWD keeps telling us that beleif in those things changes peoples lives. What seems to bother the -other side- however is that none of this makes any of the writing -true-.

[TWD39]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

Then what's the hatred of homosexuals and throwing out Leviticus quotes about?
I see it every day on CD and it deserves mocking and derision.

I don't see you commenting against those who post Leviticus.
Just because we quote the same books you do, and you don't like it, you say we're ignorant.
Might want to look at your own side of the aisle and correct them.

Atheists are ignorant if they can't understand the difference between the Old Convenant laws and universal morality laws in the OT. For example:


The rich rules over the poor, And the borrower becomes the lender's slave - Proverbs 22:7.

This is a universal truth that can apply to any generation, and it's absolutely truth. Being in debt does rob you of your freedom, and the Bible wisely advises to avoid debt. Of course, people didn't listen, and guess what, now we suffer in a poor economy as a result.

There are laws directly specifically to the Israelities that no longer apply such as the tabernacle rituals. Homosexuality is described as an abomination against God. It wouldn't make sense for it to suddenly be accepted by God after Christ's death. Furthermore, there are passages in the NT which condemn the act as sin.

[TWD39]

Originally Posted by Griffis

Exactly. Regardless of how many times I've stated I believe there is some historical foundation for some of the people, places and events in The Bible, TWD repeatedly and frequently mischaracterizes what I (and others) have said as "You claim there cannot possibly be a god and that The Bible is completely fiction!"

You claimed not long ago as FACT that Satan was a myth. Why would I draw any other conclusion when you state it plainly? Just last week, atheists were claiming that Jesus is a myth.

If you don't believe the Bible is all fiction, where you do draw the line? Anything that doesn't have a supernatural element is real history?

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by TWD39

atheists were claiming that Jesus is a myth.

And why not?

"myth (/miTH/) - Noun

1) A traditional story, esp. one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically...
2) Such stories collectively.
3) a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon"

You want to explain to us which part of that does not apply to the stories about Jesus exactly and hence what your issue is with it being described as such?

There are many different meanings of the word "myth". Many of them fitting quite nicely. Jumping instantly to offence or demands of evidence every time it is used in a way you personally do not like is only going to make you appear shrill.

[TWD39]

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

And why not?

"myth (/miTH/) - Noun

1) A traditional story, esp. one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically...
2) Such stories collectively.
3) a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon"

You want to explain to us which part of that does not apply to the stories about Jesus exactly and hence what your issue is with it being described as such?

There are many different meanings of the word "myth". Many of them fitting quite nicely. Jumping instantly to offence or demands of evidence every time it is used in a way you personally do not like is only going to make you appear shrill.

Your definitions here are irrelevant. The context of "myth" presented here in this forum is that the Biblical accounts are fiction.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by TWD39

Your definitions here are irrelevant. The context of "myth" presented here in this forum is that the Biblical accounts are fiction.

In other words YOU pick which definition to go with... regardless of which one the speaker actually intended. You really do set the cards up to facilitate your constant need to put words in the mouth of others don't you. You just choose whichever definition works for your anti atheist rants.

The fact is, by many definitions of the the word "Myth" your Jesus tales fit the definition perfectly. If that is inconvenient for you then that is really a shame.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by TWD39

17 years as a Christian and you never once experience God's direction, or witness God moving in a church or someone's life? I find that hard to believe if you were truly a devout Christian.

Ah, the no true scotsman fallacy.
Good show.

I guess that makes you "special".

[rifleman]

Ahhh Nozz... I do so wish I could give you 5 rep points for that last one! Oh well...

Originally Posted by TWD39

It's because atheists remain ignorant about Christianity.

Originally Posted by Griffis

The truth is, many atheists were once devout Christians. Many atheists and agnostics are pretty well-versed in The Bible.

I've seen many debates where nonbelievers have a much greater knowledge of The Bible and its history than believers. (Of course this is not a truism, but I have seen it happen.)

I realize that here you will probably just say "They only thought they had a relationship with God but they were mistaken" or "Their faith was too weak and they fell to worldy things" or "They never had the eyes of faith to interpret The Bible correctly" or some other such nonsense. But of course, those things are baseless nonsense.

Yes, I've gotten that nasty and disrespectful response too, Griffis, since it conveniently denies the possibility that their God is nothing but an advanced fairy tale. As usual, they will not entertain any open debate or detailed review of the supernatural events their various revisionist and multi-translated biblical claims make. <yawn>

I was a devout unthinking Christian as a late teen, and then, as my naturally curious mind and attitude mind matured, and as I accumulated significant education in the rational arenas (engineering, geology, biology), and began to question the whole enchilada, it all came apart, and my church "elders" ran for cover by denigrating my investigations as "impertinent". Typical.

The resulting claim (and, dare I suggest, honest but unthinking belief?) is, of course, is that all "true Christians" have some magical contact with their mythical leader, and so they absolutely reject any other interpretation, like those presented by us persistent atheists.

This tells us a lot about this particular religion, viz.: IT MAY NOT BE QUESTIONED (on pain of a public flogging or excommunication...)

Originally Posted by Vizio

I'm sorry...I took exception to the "many Christians"statement.

Believe it or not, some Christians do understand the Biblical teaching on tithing.

No question, I agree, Vizio, since tithing is a major requirement from your hive manage... oh sorry, I mean the church administration, but their ongoing and vigorous mis-representation of all things atheist tells us that:

1) you have no idea at all of what atheism means, is or what's at it's basis, or worse:

2) you absolutely do understand it, but are literally terrified, quaking in your spiritual booties, that it is true, and that spiritual mumbo-jumbo to which you have dedicated your entire life is nothing but a big ol' bag of hot air, rapidly cooling in the icy breezes of modern unbiased knowledge! (Oh, and so.. uhmmmm.. oh-ohhh.... there goes your much talked about Salvation... Ooopps!)

viz #2: A literal Noah's Ark indeed...

I can say that at minimum around 98% of all atheists do indeed have a reasonable background in religion (mostly in Christianity, since if you even think of trying to defect from Islam, they may rather rudely remove your cranium at the exit from the Mosque... ). Their own natural curiosity did indeed have them turn inwards and ask just a few reasonable questions, to which they also got the same ugly and hostile response that I have.

So, again, see my highlighted comment above about anyone questioning the Absolute Christian doctrines and mandates! DO NOT!

When you consider the demographic factoid of our backgrounds and attitudes, then there is an obvious source of informational imbalance, i.e.: in the level of education of atheists about Christianity versus the obviously dismal level of understanding of atheism by Christian acolytes, proved here on an hourly basis!

And so... back to our story, a tale of the ongoing intellectual self-immolation by Christian posters here in their attempts to troll and intimidate us (So VERY Christian of you folks!!) or of their oh-so-dull [error-filled] defensive/deflective/denialistic presentations.

Have at it, oh proud acolytes!