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Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,388,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank
And here we go...God wanted 9/11 to happen because he wants to wipe out Islam.
Sheesh.
No. God allowed 9/11 to happen because He wanted people to turn to Him. Take that any way you want it. I used Islam as an example, just like I used people going to Christian churches as an example. From what I understand, people worldwide started evaluating their relationship with god/God. I'm sure not everyone arrived at the same conclusion.
But, no, I don't believe the god of Islam is the same God of the Bible. However, I understand it's convenient for non-believers to blame the Christian God when bad things happen, but take offense when Christians may think their God doesn't approve of some other religions. If the Christian God is the one to blame, then doesn't it stand to reason that He is the Supreme God? Can't have it both ways.
So, I'm not going to apologize for giving my opinion on what the God of the Bible may have been thinking when He allowed the events of 9/11. He dislikes all like false gods (not just the one of Islam), and He wants people to turn to Him. You are more than free to give your opinion of what another god may have been thinking.
Moderator cut: Hi folks. To say that this is an emotionally laden topic would be an understatement. This is just a reminder to PLEASE keep in mind that everyone's views need to be respected as such. Just a reminder...Thanks, June
No. God allowed 9/11 to happen because He wanted people to turn to Him. Take that any way you want it. I used Islam as an example, just like I used people going to Christian churches as an example. From what I understand, people worldwide started evaluating their relationship with god/God. I'm sure not everyone arrived at the same conclusion.
I have a little different take on this (but like you said, Blueberry - each is entitled to their own opinion!)
IMO, it happened as a result of man's free choice. God was not behind it, He did not plan it, He wept as He saw His creation destroying one another. But God is good, and He uses every opportunity to draw others to Him. He tries to turn around every bad situation for the good...
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,388,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesbian_crusader
. Somehow I believe that if such atrocities had happened to you or someone you knew, you'd feel differently about god--it seems as though when it's someone else's misforunte, Christians collectively make excuses for god and say, "he can't control everything".
Let's see. I've known two people who have been murdered (one was my brother). I've lived in a community with a school shooting where two people died and others were injured, greatly affecting my friends and neighbors. I've known people who have died slow, painful deaths due to disease. I've known others who have suffered great pain in automobile accidents or work related injuries. I've known people who have suffered financial ruin. All of these were separate incidents, totally unrelated. I can name quite a few other tragedies that have happened either to me or someone close to me.
Did my opinion of God change? Absolutely not! The writer of Ecclesiastes said there's nothing new under the sun. I can look at tragedies detailed in the Bible and see the same principles at work in the tragedies that have touched my life and the tragedies I read about in the news. My God claims to be the same yesterday, today, and forever. He hasn't changed, His principles haven't changed, and His desire for a relationship with the people of the world hasn't changed.
I give God the credit for knowing much better than I do how to bring His plan to fruition. I might not always understand or appreciate what He's doing, but I trust Him to do what's right regardless of how it appears to my limited understanding.
Quote:
Yet you ignore the notion that god is omnipresent, is omnipotent, and has control of everything. So, essentially, you've suggested that your god is in fact not the upstanding, moral, and just man you claim him to be.
That he's in fact a jealous, hateful, spiteful, and evil god who allows bad things to happen to seemingly good people on a daily basis.
Yes, God allows bad things to happen to people on a daily basis. I'll stand by what I said earlier, there's one of two reasons: 1) to punish sin, and 2) to bring people to Himself.
However, Jesus stated, "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." Let's make sure we're not confusing the thief with God.
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,388,427 times
Reputation: 3540
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81
I have a little different take on this (but like you said, Blueberry - each is entitled to their own opinion!)
IMO, it happened as a result of man's free choice. God was not behind it, He did not plan it, He wept as He saw His creation destroying one another. But God is good, and He uses every opportunity to draw others to Him. He tries to turn around every bad situation for the good...
IMHO.
Actually, I agree with you. If you look at my earlier post about the Israelites, I think you can see my point. I also have a post that states it's the thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy. (Whereas God gives life abundantly.) However, I believe God can use the actions of the thief to bring about His plan, just like he used the enemies of Israel and Judah to work His plan. Just as God was grieved and angered over HOW the enemies treated Israel and Judah, I believe God was grieved and angered over the events of 9/11.
Why must we have an explanation as to whether or not God was involved. Maybe he was.. Maybe he wasn't. Nobody here knows for certain. Do you feel stronger in your faith if you come up with your own "why it happened" scenario.
Am I less of a believer because I simply do not know? Is it that hard to just say "It was a horrible thing that happened and I don't know why it happened" because ultimately... that is the only truth about the event from a faith based perspective.
I finally made it up to NYC this past weekend. My wife and I went to the World Trade Centers. My first thought upon seeing Ground Zero was subtle amazement.
My first thought walking into the memorial building brought it into perspective for me. On one wall are photocopies of the actual missing posters of many of the people.
On another wall, behind a glass case, are pictures of the people that died. Well, about half of them. It was then that I realized, looking into all those bright shining faces who had so much taken away from them that God must certainly not exist.
I can understand perhaps the difference in good and evil in a childish concept of mischief vs. good. But, is it so necessary to take away almost 3000 people in one fell swoop? Is it entirely necessary to allow things like that to occur? Was it necessary for each one of those families to experience the tragedies that they did? All for what? What was God's purpose for that?
Was it to get people closer to him? Was it to allow people to see him better? To ask him questions? To allow people to commit atrocities like that in HIS name? No, I say. No!
There is no such thing as God. Something like that was not necessary. Sometimes you don't realize the true tragedy until you can experience it in some small way. If there is a God, than I want no part of him for he is as wicked as the men who flew those airplanes into the building for allowing it to happen.
Get a grip...I know for certain God does exist!!! I went to see the ocean. It was a massive, powerful force. A beautiful sight to behold. I could not help but wonder WHO seperates the land from the sea. WHO keeps this big ocean from running over and swallowing me. I could not see where the ocean started, but I beheld where it stopped-right at my feet. I knew only God could create such a wonder. I was in awe at how great God is - only HE is powerful enough to hold the land from the sea and only HE keeps the ocean from swallowing me. I am certain God exists
I would just add that to the contrary, Jesus didn't promise that His followers would have a "bed of roses." He, in fact, said that in this world, we would have tribulation... (Not a promise we post on our refrigerator but true none the less.)
Yes kaykay, that is in John 16:33 Jesus said "I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world".
As Christians we should expect tension with an unbelieving world that is out of sync with Christ, but we can expect our relationship with Christ to produce peace and comfort because we are in sync with Him.
Romans 8:28 "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called to His purpose for them".
Get a grip...I know for certain God does exist!!! I went to see the ocean. It was a massive, powerful force. A beautiful sight to behold. I could not help but wonder WHO seperates the land from the sea. WHO keeps this big ocean from running over and swallowing me. I could not see where the ocean started, but I beheld where it stopped-right at my feet. I knew only God could create such a wonder. I was in awe at how great God is - only HE is powerful enough to hold the land from the sea and only HE keeps the ocean from swallowing me. I am certain God exists
It's called gravity and the tides. Sheesh it amazes me the things people will believe in. There's no god, never was, please show me proof and don't say the ocean, and the earth and everything we have. That was formed millions and millions of years ago by something called the Big Bang. And no, I don't believe god caused it. It just happened.
Science can prove the big bang, evolution etc. All the religious have is "faith" and a book written by ordinary men that means nothing.
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