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Hey G,
This post speaks volumes about your compassion. If you watch the news your sentiment could be repeated daily. I don't blame God though... this is not HIS system, this is not what He intended for humans. He will get things back on track.
Hey G,
This post speaks volumes about your compassion. If you watch the news your sentiment could be repeated daily. I don't blame God though... this is not HIS system, this is not what He intended for humans. He will get things back on track.
We've been waiting 2000 years....
I don't know... When there's an invitation to a party, after the person doesn't show up for an hour or two I sort of write them off as not coming. 2000 years... that goes as a definite 'no show' in my book.
I find it interesting that people who say they don't believe in God blame Him for all the evil things going on in the world. Why is it that these same people aren't blaming Buddha, Allah, or any one of the thousands of gods in the Hindu religion? Why are you blaming Someone you don't even believe in?
They aren't blaming 'god' for the evil, although the common conception of god is that they are omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omnicient, although given the amount of suffering someone can't have a god that has all three characteristics.
It is late here, and I can't possibly read all the responses to this post, but if anyone has already touched upon it, then my apologies.
Why was it that Ground Zero shook your belief in God? My guess is ( like one of the posts I read) that you had no belief to begin with. Have you no awareness of what has happened before 9/11? The world did not start and end at that date. What about Hirshoma? Or the Holocaust? Are the victims of these man-made crimes not worthy of pause for thought.
The World Trade attacks stick in my, and everyone else's minds because we saw them unfold before our very eyes. But let us be clear. It was a shocking tragedy, but no more so than the events of decades earlier.
The truth is we live now in an evil and morally bankrupt world that stands on the precipice. But I have no doubt that the God who created our world is still very much in control of it. He will act in his time, as the Scriptures foretold.
I long for the day when Revelation comes true, and 'He wipes all tears from everyone's eyes'.
Last edited by elizabeth7; 10-17-2008 at 05:28 PM..
It is late here, and I can't possibly read all the responses to this post, but if anyone has already touched upon it, then my apologies.
Why was it that Ground Zero shook your belief in God? My guess is ( like one of the posts I read) that you had no belief to begin with. Have you no awareness of what has happened before 9/11? The world did not start and end at that date. What about Hirshoma? Or the Holocaust? Are the victims of these man-made crimes not worthy of pause for thought.
The World Trade attacks stick in my, and everyone else's minds because we saw them unfold before our very eyes. But let us be clear. It was a shocking tragedy, but no more so than the events of decades earlier.
The truth is we live now in an evil and morally bankrupt world that stands on the precipice. But I have no doubt that the God who created our world is still very much in control of it. He will act in his time, as the Scriptures foretold.
I long for the day when Revelation comes true, and 'He wipes all tears from everyone's eyes'.
*Sigh*
I don't really think anyone really understands what the point of this initial thread was. It wasn't like I went to Ground Zero with faith in God, I saw it, became angry and then lost my faith. In fact, it was quite the opposite. You know how in politics they call the addition of running mates "shoring up the vote"? Well, that's kind of how I felt when I went to Ground Zero.
I went there already not believing in a God (Christian or otherwise) and seeing Ground Zero more or less reiterated my sentiments on that notion. I wasn't mad at God for allowing it to happen because I didn't believe in God in the first place. However, what it did reaffirm for me and hence why I made the post "I am now certain..." is because I am convinced that if a God exists he doesn't give a damn about any of us - and that was my point.
In fact, I find it more probable that if a God exists that it is one absolutely not worthy of worship. So, no, I did not have any sort of faith that a God existed prior to my visit but I was affirmed of the fact that a God who cares most certainly doesn't - and we can take 9/11 or we can take the Holocaust or any other atrocity in history as evidence of that.
And yet, there are those who insist that it's not God's doing, that we have free will, and that God actually does care despite all of the horrible things that have occured. However, these are the same people who also claim that God intervenes in their life (thereby eliminating free will) to make their lives better. It's a non sequitir.
They aren't blaming 'god' for the evil, although the common conception of god is that they are omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omnicient, although given the amount of suffering someone can't have a god that has all three characteristics.
I totally believe their can be (and is) such a Creator. Of course you have to get into different levels of ontological abstraction to understand how this can possibly be (sorry for using the rare term).
"People" ~ religious or not ~ have this idea that God is supposed to step in and prevent evil actions of men. Perhaps organized religion plays a part in giving people this misconception; however, for those of you are not/never were "religious", then whatever gave you that idea to begin with????
We all know the things that are expected of us where "HE" is concerned. Most of us also know that The Bible is supposed to be a guideline to live our lives, much like an employee manual at a job. All the same words have been passed down for thousands of years.
I spent my childhood and earlier adulthood going to church every Sunday, and while my outlook and beliefs have "evolved" over time, I have NEVER ~ even as a child ~ felt that God was supposed to run our lives for us. We were brought here, handed our manuals (Bibles) and/or given lists of expectations to live right, and from that point on we are expected to LIVE AND RUN THIS WORLD ON OUR OWN!
More of us fail ourselves, and our neighbors, more than we realize or are willing to admit. It's OUR OWN fault, OUR OWN screw-ups! And I can't comprehend why HE is supposed to take the blame for that. Why do we have free will, then? And why do we have the capacity to use our brains and hearts better than we do? If God indeed keeps report cards on every one of us on this earth then I imagine that, as a whole, we are one sorry lot.
It's easy to think about Ground Zero and the Oklahoma Bombing and assume that God doesn't care. However, HE is not the one who did it; the people he gave undeserving lives to on this earth are the ones who failed Him and their neighbor. Humans are just as savage as they are loving, and the evil actions of MAN will not end in our life-time. THAT is for humans beings to work out on their own ~ God's isn't going to do it for him.
"People" ~ religious or not ~ have this idea that God is supposed to step in and prevent evil actions of men. Perhaps organized religion plays a part in giving people this misconception; however, for those of you are not/never were "religious", then whatever gave you that idea to begin with????
We all know the things that are expected of us where "HE" is concerned. Most of us also know that The Bible is supposed to be a guideline to live our lives, much like an employee manual at a job. All the same words have been passed down for thousands of years.
I spent my childhood and earlier adulthood going to church every Sunday, and while my outlook and beliefs have "evolved" over time, I have NEVER ~ even as a child ~ felt that God was supposed to run our lives for us. We were brought here, handed our manuals (Bibles) and/or given lists of expectations to live right, and from that point on we are expected to LIVE AND RUN THIS WORLD ON OUR OWN!
More of us fail ourselves, and our neighbors, more than we realize or are willing to admit. It's OUR OWN fault, OUR OWN screw-ups! And I can't comprehend why HE is supposed to take the blame for that. Why do we have free will, then? And why do we have the capacity to use our brains and hearts better than we do? If God indeed keeps report cards on every one of us on this earth then I imagine that, as a whole, we are one sorry lot.
It's easy to think about Ground Zero and the Oklahoma Bombing and assume that God doesn't care. However, HE is not the one who did it; the people he gave undeserving lives to on this earth are the ones who failed Him and their neighbor. Humans are just as savage as they are loving, and the evil actions of MAN will not end in our life-time. THAT is for humans beings to work out on their own ~ God's isn't going to do it for him.
And that's fine... You can believe that all you want but let's not mince words and say that God is intervening in our lives in the subtle ways that people claim. In other words, if there is such a thing as some sort of "God Given Free Will" than it should be free will in ENTIRETY, right? That means that God is not going to intervene in situations of mass horror but he's also not going to help little Johnny pass his test on Monday morning. That means that he's not going to intervene when people are murdered and he's also not curing cancer. I get a little irritated when I hear people give all "The Glory To God" for all of the wonderful things in their life (as if he had some sort of hand in it all) and then backpedal and throw the "free will" card out any time something bad happens.
By the same token when I saw my children being born...or when I look at a clear night sky...or try to fathom the depth of the universe...or just the workings of the human body...I say, there must be a God.
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