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Then we may have something in common. As a Muslim I also believe Jesus "Isa"(as) is the Masah (Messiah). We also believe he is a Muslim and preached the same Message, that was later revealed to Muhammad(swt) . We also believe Jesus(as) is not to be worshipped and is an Islamic Prophet(PBUT) a Human like all other Prophets. He does not seem to meet the criteria the Jews believe their Messiah will have. I do not understand how an observant Jew could mistake Jesus(as) for the Judaic concept of the Messiah.
I am not aware of any other "Messianic Jews" as you describe them to be, having ever posted here. It may be difficult for you to find any to speak with.
We have had many evangelical Christians come here using the name "Messianic Jew" and attempt to preach Christianity.
I think I understand you better now and I apologize for thinking you were a Christian.
True, but as a Messianic Jew I do not believe in the Quran, but I do respect Muslims and Islam.
Actually if you read the Torah clearly, you would realize that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic laws. However, most Jews wants to ignore that so they do not lose their religion and culture. Our group believe that you could still practice Judaism while believe in Jesus the Messiah.
Since I am Jewish and read the Torah, this should belong to Judaism forum or general religion. Again, I am not Christian because I am not baptized, nor do I own a Christian Bible, nor do I attend church or celebrate Christian holidays.
There are thousands of Messianic Jews in Israel and elsewhere in the world. You need to respect our beliefs. Our group is growing very fast, and most of us including I do not proselytise. Unfortunately, some Jews are in fear and must secretly believe in Jesus.
Muslims believe in Jesus, and they are not Christians. You can believe in Jesus and not be Christian.
I agree with you here
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Muslims believe in Jesus, and they are not Christians. You can believe in Jesus and not be Christian.
But you can not believe in Jesus(as) and be a Jew. That makes as much sense as thinking one could be a "Qur'an observant Jew".
I have Jewish ancestry on my Mothers side, I do have a strong Jewish heritage and even still have Jewish Relatives and I lost Jewish relatives in the Holocaust. But, I believe the Qur'an is the truth and would never claim to be a Jew. I simply disagree with Judaism as a faith and prefer to follow Islam. I also think it would be both stupid and an insult to both Jews and Muslims if I thought of myself as being a "Qur'anic" Jew". I do not think the phrase "Messianic Jew" makes any more sense than "Qur'anic Jew"
True, but as a Messianic Jew I do not believe in the Quran, but I do respect Muslims and Islam.
Actually if you read the Torah clearly, you would realize that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic laws. However, most Jews wants to ignore that so they do not lose their religion and culture. Our group believe that you could still practice Judaism while believe in Jesus the Messiah.
You hit it right
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However, most Jews wants to ignore that so they do not lose their religion and culture.
You are correct, if a Jew believes Jesus(as) is the Messiah, they will no longer be Jewish.
But you can not believe in Jesus(as) and be a Jew. That makes as much sense as thinking one could be a "Qur'an observant Jew".
I have Jewish ancestry on my Mothers side, I do have a strong Jewish heritage and even still have Jewish Relatives and I lost Jewish relatives in the Holocaust. But, I believe the Qur'an is the truth and would never claim to be a Jew. I simply disagree with Judaism as a faith and prefer to follow Islam. I also think it would be both stupid and an insult to both Jews and Muslims if I thought of myself as being a "Qur'anic" Jew". I do not think the phrase "Messianic Jew" makes any more sense than "Qur'anic Jew"
One can not be both oil and water.
A Jew is a person who is born of Jewish mother, or a person who have converted. You could be an atheist Jew. Jewish is also ethnicity and not only religion. Indeed, Jews are diverse people. Not all Jews follow Judaism.
Muhammed was not a Messiah, while Jesus was. That's the difference. If Muhammed was claimed as a Messiah in Islam, then there might have been a group called "Jews for Muhammed".. You understand?
Are there any Jews for Jesus in this forum? I would love to have contact with them and discuss in this forum.
For those of you unaware of it; We are Jews who have accepted Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah. We are not Christians, we do not celebrate any Christian holidays, and are not baptized. We are Jews who follow Torah law, observe the Sabbath, and celebrate Jewish holidays. Messianic Jews are small but growing rapidly in Israel and the western world.
To answer your main question. No I don't believe there are any Jews for Jesus in this Judaism Forum.
A Jew is a person who is born of Jewish mother, or a person who have converted. You could be an atheist Jew. Jewish is also ethnicity and not only religion. Indeed, Jews are diverse people. Not all Jews follow Judaism.
Muhammed was not a Messiah, while Jesus was. That's the difference. If Muhammed was claimed as a Messiah in Islam, then there might have been a group called "Jews for Muhammed".. You understand?
Agreed Muhammad(saws) is not a Masah in Islam. but Jesus(as) is. Jesus(as) is also the most named prophet in the Qur'an and is mentioned by name in the Qur'an more than in the Bible. Muhammad(swt) is mentioned by name in the Qur'an only 4 times. The Qur'an tells very little about Muhammad(saws). that is why I used the term "Qur'anic Jews". In any event neither would be Jews.
Yes Jews are diverse and there are ethnic Jews that do not follow Judaism there are even Muslim ethnic Jews, but they do not follow Judaism nor claim to be "Muslim Jews". By choosing Islam they are no longer Jews no matter what the family history is. I could argue I am an "Ethnic Jew" but my Families choice to leave Judaism and become Christian has decidedly removed them self from the Jewish Faith. (I left Christianity and accepted Islam) In the same way my parents and Grand parents left Judaism and became Christians "Messianic Jews" have removed them self from the Jewish Faith.
Only a few Christian denominations require Baptism to become a Christian. It is possible to become a Christian without going through any ritual, although it usually takes a lot of ritualistic stuff to become a Church Member.
Since I am Jewish and read the Torah, this should belong to Judaism forum or general religion. Again, I am not Christian because I am not baptized, nor do I own a Christian Bible, nor do I attend church or celebrate Christian holidays.
There are thousands of Messianic Jews in Israel and elsewhere in the world. You need to respect our beliefs. Our group is growing very fast, and most of us including I do not proselytise. Unfortunately, some Jews are in fear and must secretly believe in Jesus.
Muslims believe in Jesus, and they are not Christians. You can believe in Jesus and not be Christian.
You are free to not label yourself as Christian, but by definition, you cannot be Jewish and believe that Jesus was any sort of messiah. You are something else entirely.
This is taken from the "Jews for Jesus" Statement of Faith:
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We believe that Jesus the Messiah was eternally pre-existent and is co-equal with God the Father; that He took on Himself the nature of man through the virgin birth so that He possesses both divine and human natures.
...
We believe that Jesus the Messiah died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, as a representative and substitutionary sacrifice; that all who believe in Him are justified, not by any works of righteousness they have done, but by His perfect righteousness and atoning blood and that there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.
This describes a Christian, not a Jew. You can deny it all you'd like, but you can't be both. If you accept Jesus as both messiah and divine, then you are, by definition, a Christian.
I have a few general statements about this thread. First a question...why can't a person be Jewish and believe Jesus is the messiah? I know people keep saying that, but why? Is the answer just because christians believe it? Is there not such a thing as an absolute truth that applies to all people? Such as G-d created all things...that is true no matter who believes it, right? If someone does not believe that does their disbelief make it untrue?
Also, I have started my research. My first finding is a verse in Zechariah that the Christians claim is proof that Jesus was the messiah... Very interesting. The JPS translation and the Christian translation were completely different! Not just one word, but the entire meaning is different. I have a friend who is a Hebrew scholar (double phd from duke and Harvard). I am going to ask his opinion on this translation business. I will also post on here when I have the opportunity.
I have a few general statements about this thread. First a question...why can't a person be Jewish and believe Jesus is the messiah? I know people keep saying that, but why? Is the answer just because christians believe it? Is there not such a thing as an absolute truth that applies to all people? Such as G-d created all things...that is true no matter who believes it, right? If someone does not believe that does their disbelief make it untrue?
Because the ideas (and the religions that stem from them) are completely contradictory.
In Christianity (and "messianic" Judaism), Jesus is seen as part of the Trinity (fully human and fully God), and is worshiped as God Himself. This alone qualifies it as idolatry in the eyes of Judaism. And then there are the ideas of eternal damnation, vicarious salvation, human sacrifice, and all manner of things that go against the core ideas found in Judaism. Someone who was either born a Jew or halakhically converted and professes to follow Jesus is an apostate and heretic to the Jewish faith, and is (halakhically speaking) cut off from the Jewish people as long as they persist in that path. We are all free to believe what we wish, but we don't get to redefine terms to make them fit what we want.
It has nothing to do with what is absolutely true or not; it has to do with whether or not it conforms to the basic tenets of a religion. As Woodrow has already said, the term "messianic" Jew makes as much sense as a "Qur'anic" Christian or a "Christian" Muslim. A Jew is free to decide that Jesus is the messiah and to fully embrace that religion, but then they fit the definition of and follow the religion of Christianity. If they want to be honest and still acknowledge their heritage, then the best way to identify themselves would be as "Christian with a Jewish heritage" or something along those lines.
The OP really should read up on the "Jews for Jesus" movement; the organization is dedicated to evangelizing to the Jewish population and converting them to Christianity. They are funded, supported, and trained by Christian organizations, and their name is tailored to suggest that worshiping Jesus as God is somehow compatible with living a Jewish life. It isn't.
Last edited by JB from NC; 07-28-2013 at 10:00 AM..
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