Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wow! Apparently this thread really DID have to happen. So much commentary from those who seemingly would have me not say anything.
("Oh damn him! Why won't he just shut up and leave our beliefs alone? You know, the ones we always try to ram down their throats?")
No discussion, no prompting of the activists allowed here, no responses needed. "Just believe in God my son, and all will be just fine. Trust in Dah Lawdy, and you will be saved!" (Uhmmm... from what, I ask again? Oh yeah: a near-crippling fear of their own impending and unavoidable death. Just as nallia notes below. Ultimate and unthinking faith-based "Oh well. I'm good with God!" feelings.
Amazing. And really! I do thank you all for your concern about my apparently demonically disrupted state of mind, but it's far more telling of your's than mine. Many of you really should seek professional help, while I am quite comfortable in my bulletproof skin!
Have a good day y;hear now?
_____________________________________
There! Done and done, except for these final comments! PS: I get The Last Word, nyah nyah. {Duhn't my vast anger and hatred just git'cha? Apparently it does!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930
Wow Rifleman. That has to be one of the most impressive rants I've read in a long time.
Quote:
Why thank you! It's Rants 'R'Us! You can subscribe to my channel if you' like, to be better informed in life's little mysteries, but first... please send money to needy me, instead of to your church.
I withdraw my comments about to you being fearful. I don't think you're afraid, but angry? Well....
Anyways, I can't say anything that will cause you to believe any more than you could bring an argument that would cause me to abandon my faith. However, thanks for the post, I sincerely enjoyed it.
See? Direct topic avoidance as usual. To wit: "I can't convince you, since you have nothing to offer but derision! so I'll just retreat!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalite
I mostly agree with Queen's responses. But a lot of the questions asked, even if I were a Christian who held those beliefs, I would probably not answer to and look all over to see just WHO it was you were talking to. It seems more like you're talking to people from your past who seemed to do you wrong and you're just angry. :/
Quote:
Nope. no-one has ever done me wrong as regards religion. This is again, typical from the Christian perspective: if one, oddly, does not believe in The Obvious GodHead ("I mean, just look around at ll this Created Beauty. There has to be a God!"), then they must somehow be demented, angry or very poorly brought up.
Well so sorry... it's all my own mind, I'm afraid, at work here. I'm obviously just a militant atheist tired of the endless proselytizing of fundies, who seem to think they alone have the "verbal spewage option" in this society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem125
It's not that I refuse to answer your questions...it's just that when I read your posts msf f it's =f just so gg hard to d stay awakzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
And yet... It seems that 1) you did read it all, and then 2) you still took the time from your Christian-inspired intellectual napping to write something. Got'cah, dinnt'I? You bet I did! Thx!
Quote:
Originally Posted by perry335654
It's obvious you have a fear your own or you wouldn't be asking these questions, you would be content within your own self.
[color="Blue"]You betcha. Trembling fear of... uhmmm... of... errr... oh well. The questions were aimed at the likes of you, silly! And still... no-one seems to want to take them seriously, but rather, they prefer to demonize the questioner as usual.
I'm afraid, apparently, of an endless life in heaven just for the asking? Wow! Gullible much?
Otherwise, thx for your happy comments, all thou deeply loving Christians, who are only concerned with my salvation as you are hereby biblically directed to do! Otherwise, it is I, having thought it all out, unlike you and your lost-in-faith buddies, who am now more than happy! Otherwise, I'd be desperately drooling at the mandatory "kneel and be saved!" throne of God.
Oh, btw #2: lsn't that prayerful & quivering kneeling in front of a wooden Jesus-thingee, devoutly promising to be good all through the next week, exactly the stuff of rampant iconism, which is a Registered™ sin? I thought so!
It's obvious... it's you types who just cannot bear to be forced to think it through to it's logical conclusion. That this sort of progressive approach...
... is the standard for religious discussion. Your choice, but to me, it's v. clear who will come to a truly rational conclusion. And as well, there's always this response to disobedient thinking in the mandated Christian milieu...
I, for one, had a great time at church today. The sermon was about faith and listening to the voice of God and I felt so rejuvenated when I left. I will say that there is no better feeling than handing over all your fears and insecurities to someone who loves you so dearly He would go through inconceivable torture just because He can't stand to lose you. Alas, I'm waxing on...evidence of my passion, I'm afraid.
However way you look at it, it was meant to happen. From experience, I've come to the realization that when people ask questions like this, it could be for a variety of reasons but often it is to assess for gaps in knowledge... sort of a way to prove that you have no idea what you stand for.
Bottom line: despite the questions, rifleman has absolutely no interest in what we have to say.
Oh but I do and have. FYI nallia, and respectfully: If you were to go back and review my once-more-polite threads, and the lack of any rational answers from the devout, Moderator cut: Not a particularly good thing to do... You are a late comer, obviously, and don't yet get it. Too bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyLuvsToTravel
I really didn't have a need to offer answers to the OP's list of questions. Not that i refuse to answer, but what difference would my answers make to him, other than urging him on to refute, belittle or negate whatever i said.
By the way, i am neither deist or atheist... just a person with an open mind
Well good for you, Sandy. I appreciate it! I can happily look forward to some back-and-forth with you, versus being demonized yet again as some sort of confused and angry nut. Because such obvious demonizing is hugely typical of the Christian response: to wit: "Don't discuss, just demonize the angry atheist. After all, they are just confused, frightened and desperate!"
Well, to that: Thx, you guys, for making my point yet again!
Again, this OP was and still is directly aimed at those who have predictably refused, over the years I've been here on C-D, to provide any rational discussion. They deny any such thinking, but "why for"? To avoid critical thinking is my first thought, since when individual aspects of established religion are brought up, they run off like intellectually terrified lemmings.
Moderator cut: deleted I certainly has duhn gotten a rise outa dem religiously defensive types, non?
You are all so very welcome. But now.. go back to The Sleep of the Damned! (Shsshh now: minds at rest!)
Happily taking on the day, I remain, YrHmblSrvnt: THE rifleman
But Rifleman, seriously, why is so important for you (or anyone) to pose questions and then take umbrage at the replies you get? Each of us are probably quite happy with our choice/lifestyle of theist or atheist, and frankly it's not anyone's "job" to adamantly try to change that. What starts out as a friendly debate, discussion or exchange of ideas always ends up with one side or other rolling their eyes, scoffing, condemning the other... with the attitude "why can't i make you see (my way) (the right way) (the scientific way) (the Bible based way) (or fill in the blanks........)"
If someone asks me to attend church with them, i politely decline. If asked why I say "as a free thinker I don't subscribe to any one religion's/denomination's interpretation of deities or cosmic origins". To have them push the subject further is goading and baiting me; neither would it be proper to say to them "Nope, won't go to church with you, you are all blind religious fools".
Some things will never be agreed upon, nor minds changed... trying to "win" someone over to your (your collectively) side rarely works.
Wow! Apparently this thread really DID have to happen. So much commentary from those who seemingly would have me not say anything.
("Oh damn him! Why won't he just shut up and leave our beliefs alone? You know, the ones we always try to ram down their throats?")
No discussion, no prompting of the activists allowed here, no responses needed. "Just believe in God my son, and all will be just fine. Trust in Dah Lawdy, and you will be saved!" (Uhmmm... from what, I ask again? Oh yeah: a near-crippling fear of their own impending and unavoidable death. Just as nallia notes below. Ultimate and unthinking faith-based "Oh well. I'm good with God!" feelings.
Amazing. And really! I do thank you all for your concern about my apparently demonically disrupted state of mind, but it's far more telling of your's than mine. Many of you really should seek professional help, while I am quite comfortable in my bulletproof skin!
Have a good day y;hear now?
_____________________________________
There! Done and done, except for these final comments! PS: I get The Last Word, nyah nyah. {Duhn't my vast anger and hatred just git'cha? Apparently it does!)
See? Direct topic avoidance as usual. To wit: "I can't convince you, since you have nothing to offer but derision! so I'll just retreat!"
And yet... It seems that 1) you did read it all, and then 2) you still took the time from your Christian-inspired intellectual napping to write something. Got'cah, dinnt'I? You bet I did! Thx!
[color="Blue"]You betcha. Trembling fear of... uhmmm... of... errr... oh well. The questions were aimed at the likes of you, silly! And still... no-one seems to want to take them seriously, but rather, they prefer to demonize the questioner as usual.
I'm afraid, apparently, of an endless life in heaven just for the asking? Wow! Gullible much?
Otherwise, thx for your happy comments, all thou deeply loving Christians, who are only concerned with my salvation as you are hereby biblically directed to do! Otherwise, it is I, having thought it all out, unlike you and your lost-in-faith buddies, who am now more than happy! Otherwise, I'd be desperately drooling at the mandatory "kneel and be saved!" throne of God.
Oh, btw #2: lsn't that prayerful & quivering kneeling in front of a wooden Jesus-thingee, devoutly promising to be good all through the next week, exactly the stuff of rampant iconism, which is a Registered™ sin? I thought so!
It's obvious... it's you types who just cannot bear to be forced to think it through to it's logical conclusion. That this sort of progressive approach...
... is the standard for religious discussion. Your choice, but to me, it's v. clear who will come to a truly rational conclusion. And as well, there's always this response to disobedient thinking in the mandated Christian milieu...
Oh but I do and have. FYI nallia, and respectfully: If you were to go back and review my once-more-polite threads, and the lack of any rational answers from the devout, you'd understand why I produced this seeming trolling OP. You are a late comer, obviously, and don't yet get it. Too bad.
Well good for you, Sandy. I appreciate it! I can happily look forward to some back-and-forth with you, versus being demonized yet again as some sort of confused and angry nut. Because such obvious demonizing is hugely typical of the Christian response: to wit: "Don't discuss, just demonize the angry atheist. After all, they are just confused, frightened and desperate!"
Well, to that: Thx, you guys, for making my point yet again!
Again, this OP was and still is directly aimed at those who have predictably refused, over the years I've been here on C-D, to provide any rational discussion. They deny any such thinking, but "why for"? To avoid critical thinking is my first thought, since when individual aspects of established religion are brought up, they run off like intellectually terrified lemmings.
For such an obvious troll thread, I certainly has duhn gotten a rise outa dem religiously defensive types, non?
You are all so very welcome. But now.. go back to The Sleep of the Damned! (Shsshh now: minds at rest!)
Happily taking on the day, I remain, YrHmblSrvnt: THE rifleman
Again, great rant. Any responses I have are going to be based on faith and the bible. Now, maybe it's just me, but somehow I don't think you'd be very receptive to that.
As a former atheist, I completely understand the scorn. I mean really. God? Where in the hell (oops, probably wrong choice of words) did He come from? But I do believe now.
But seriously, here's a question for you...
What do you say to an atheist when they sneeze? Good luck?
1. Are there two or more kinds of "nothing" in the universe? Explain.
I'm not sure what you're calling "nothing". I guess I need a more clear question in order to answer this.
Quote:
2. Are the well-established rules for an organism's environmental requirements (habitat, specific foods, & various other critical elements like temp, humidity, seasonality, and so on..) and reproductive ecology different for God's world than for the real universe?
God is not an organism, as we would know it. He is not a creature, and was not created. He is not dependent on anything. (Acts 17:24-25).
Quote:
3. Did He suspend reality while He also required extra time to make His universe, instead of using His claimed omnipotential powers?
What extra time?
Quote:
4. Were all the rules for interactive biochemistry, geology, astronomy etc., temporarily set aside for God's Genesis events? And if so, did He then return them all, including the behavior of radioactive decay within specific elements etc. back to their rational pre- Genesis status? Why?
He has been known to suspend these laws at times in order to do his will. The sun standing still is merely one instance. If he did the same with creation I wouldn't have an issue with it
Quote:
5. Is it OK to just hand-wavingly dismiss all intellectual reasoning in mindless, thoughtless support of a specific Abrahamic Christianity version, to the total exclusion of logic and reality? Knowing of course that there are also numerous alternate Genesis stories in the world's many many other religions.
Of course not. But I'll ask you the same question. Is it OK to just hand-wavingly dismiss all intellectual reasoning in mindless, thoughtless support of specific "scientific truths" to the total exclusion of logic and reality? Knowing of course that there are also numerous alternate possibilities, creation being merely one of them ?
Quote:
6. Why are other far more advanced (at the time..) societies, such as the historically accurate and "date-stamped" writings of the Chinese, ultimately ignored? You know: those whose advanced and far more "scientific" culture pre-empted and pre-existed those droning ME Simpleton's multi-versional writings? These advanced scholars obviously did not note nor document such things as the total inundation of their lands, cultures and thoughts.
I'm sorry, to be brutally honest I know very little of Chinese mythologies, nor does the Bible really record any interaction with them.
Quote:
As in: Why is the particularly humorous, egregious and absolutely illogical Noah's Ark story taken as The God's Own Absolute Truth, when, for example, the Egyptians, Chinese, other Asian societies, as well as the northern European Explorer societies, and so on, are all simplistically dismissed out of hand?
Hmmm?
Because God said it happened. It is recorded in Genesis. As for the other stories? They just point to the fact that there was such an event that actually did occur.
Quote:
(Prediction: no answer. silence is their only answer, since abject fear will always taketh a bite out of their quivering minds..)
(Oh, and don't forget to enjoy your Sunday church sermon today!)
Thank you. I was happy with my sermon this past Sunday. I exposited Acts 9:20-31. We had a nice time of fellowship and worship. You ought to try going to church...you might be a nicer person for it.
6. Why are other far more advanced (at the time..) societies, such as the historically accurate and "date-stamped" writings of the Chinese, ultimately ignored? You know: those whose advanced and far more "scientific" culture pre-empted and pre-existed those droning ME Simpleton's multi-versional writings? These advanced scholars obviously did not note nor document such things as the total inundation of their lands, cultures and thoughts.
As in: Why is the particularly humorous, egregious and absolutely illogical Noah's Ark story taken as The God's Own Absolute Truth, when, for example, the Egyptians, Chinese, other Asian societies, as well as the northern European Explorer societies, and so on, are all simplistically dismissed out of hand?
This reminds me of what may be one of the best The Onion headlines ever:
I'm not sure what you're calling "nothing". I guess I need a more clear question in order to answer this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn™
The nothing of which this universe was, possibly but not likely, made from. Cristian fundamentalists yowl that science and atheists insist it all came from nothing. (Not true. We do not say that. We don't know, and neither do you, Vizio, other than as a faith-based biblical factoid.)
But then, oddly, Christians claim God made it all from... shat again? O yeah: NOTHING! So... On which molecular or energy or otherwise unknown form did He or nature make it from??
I'm simply speculating that our presently evolved IQ is hugely insufficient to "suss it all out", and yet Christianity assumes to KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS, when clearly it does not.
God is not an organism, as we would know it. He is not a creature, and was not created. He is not dependent on anything. (Acts 17:24-25).
Quote:
Nice evasion.
What extra time?
Quote:
You know. When it has been made more than abundantly clear that this planet's (and the universe's) obviously lengthy geological past took a bit longer than 6 glorious days, what with inarguable geological sedimentary layer counts ("one, two, three... five thousand, five thousand and one... twelve million, twelve million and one... etc. etc.) the fundies had no option but to then allow for that maddive time.
So they then, with I'll admit, great imagination, (all of it concocted within the last few decades btw, hardly biblically supported in ANY way...) unilaterally decided that God simply adjusted the time frame of his existence to allow Him enough time to have at it, to lay down all those multi-millions of sediment layers, plus those faults in the crust we now know exist and cause earthquakes, those layers of ancient, and newer, and then even newer volcanic ash layers (that nonetheless date by simple counting, to multi-tens of thousands, if not millions of years old...) that surround volcanos.
Plus radiometric and other highly reliable dating techniques. which true to their continued logical and pro-knowledge evasion and attempts at logical revisionism, they insist did not behave the same back then as they oddly do now. Those danged Selective Beliefs of Convenience run the mind, it seems...
All INDISPUTABLE stuff, thus requiring a new-age add-on pseudo-intelligent answer from the Creationist fundamentalist.
As in this SBoC comment:
He has been known to suspend these laws at times in order to do his will. The sun standing still is merely one instance. If he did the same with creation I wouldn't have an issue with it.
Quote:
Of course, you choose to believe this stuff, despite all the evidence to the contrary. But again, you are not open to even considering alternative ideas. But still, how do you explain those multi-sed-levels, Viz, old bean?
Please then... let me know. did it all just drop down one afternoon as annualized sed-layers just to confuse us or test our faith? what an oddlball approach indeed.
But I'll ask you the same question. Is it OK to just hand-wavingly dismiss all intellectual reasoning in mindless, thoughtless support of specific "scientific truths" to the total exclusion of logic and reality? Knowing of course that there are also numerous alternate possibilities, creation being merely one of them ?
Quote:
Nope. "Mindless, thoughtless"? NOT how I think ,nor how The SM ever works. Your fear and hugely misguided (I wonder where that mindless, thoughtless approach comes from. Hmmm...) mis-understandings of how Science works to get to it's reproducible answers is filling the room with that odor of fear yet again. Demonstrable and inarguable.
As you obviously refuse to acknowledge due entirely to what it so reliably produces, it's a simple logical means to test any question ("Are there really unicorns in my back yard, but only when there's a full moon?"; "Do bacteria actually exist in our gut, or is it all done by The Magic Digestion Fairies?"; "Can the biblically claimed Miracles of God compare to a more logical explanation?", or specifically: "Can or did God &/or Moses actually part theRed Sea waters?"; "Is the entire basis for the world's organic population carried in Noah's Ark for a full 18 months, with sufficient food, fresh water, waste management, seasonality in temps and humidity and soil pH (he'd have to have carried the plants too, unless you actually believe that your own house plants can sustain and live through, say, being under salt water for those 18 months?
Go ahead: give it a try and report back to us. IPS: it won't take 18 mo though. I'd say about 10 days, then they are gone forever..)
I'm sorry, to be brutally honest I know very little of Chinese mythologies, nor does the Bible really record any interaction with them.
Quote:
Another wild evasion. Simple enough, and in fact, you DO know it. The ancient Chinese, hose culture nd society pre-evolved that of the ME, accurately recorded their cultural histories long before the dehydrated, mostly starving members of a very limited social structures of the ancient Middle East, when superstition dominated the thinking of those vastly illiterate people. What, are you going to day they were on an intellectual, logic-oriented social standing back then?
Then why did it or they, in their gloriously accurate biblical wisdom, not record a global inundation that would have, duh, killed all of them off?
An even better question: why is it that you insist on denying any of these well-proven ideas? The only reason, obviously, is the massive damage it will do to your own personally based idea of God's importance, His holy countenance on your existence, and the vastly overrated egotistical and arrogant belief in the absolute importance of Man in the Greater Godly Scheme of Things. A non-existent condition, of course, given what we have discovered since The Highly Disciplined & Enforced Glorious Age of Intellectual Darkness.
Simple enough question. If you believe that the writings of any other contemporaneous cultures, including those proven very accurate Chinese recordings, DID NOT reflect such events, please.. check it out.
Btw, this is not some local fludd myth. Your bible claims it was God's chosen way (but not the Chinese God's ways) of cleaning up.. What a disingenuous hoot!
Because God said it happened. It is recorded in Genesis. As for the other stories? They just point to the fact that there was such an event that actually did occur.
Quote:
Simple as that, huh? But a lot of things have been recorded in many ancient books. Why are they all wrong, but The Bible is absolutely right? Wow!
I'm still here. And I'm hardly quivering.
Quote:
Right! You just don't know that you're quivering, (but inside, you are..). Else why the desperate resistance to facts?
A lot of purposeful self-deception can lead to a very false sense of absolute (that word again..) security, esp. when so much of your life depends on that internal deception. (See: The Stockholm Syndrome as a slightly off-base but still appropriate, reaction by those who are deeply threatened by the facts..)
Thank you. I was happy with my sermon this past Sunday. I exposited Acts 9:20-31. We had a nice time of fellowship and worship. You ought to try going to church...you might be a nicer person for it.
Quote:
I ought to try going to church? How little you know me! Been there, still do it. no efect, since to re-listen to an unchanging story of magical miracles and nonsense in the face of far better explanations?
Whaaa.. whoooo.. why????.
1) I first spent the years from about 5 years old through to my 18th or so age, when I graduated from high school and began what became a very long and productive, intellectually independent education in many aspects of science, philosophy, critical thinking and engineering, plus geology.
(PS: I am now fully convinced that there are indeed two unique sub-species of hominid that co-evolved on this planet. The abjectly-uninformed & hysterical faith-based types, and the naturally inquisitive, unafraid, higher-IQ types (ahem!) who at least want to at least logically challenge the so-called facts, esp. those that the church insists YOU MUST BELIEVE IN! Or Else!
And so, as my progressively maturing and ever-inquisitive mind then asked simple logic-based questions of my until-then devout Christian Church-attending faith, it slowly became more than evident the degree of devious thinking and mandated obedience that the Church was bringing to the innocent of mind.
And so...by the time I was about 25 or so, it was very clear ho it really was, and I distinctly remember looking up and, in wild and satirical derision, saying "F**ck You, Lord. You don't exist. I dare you to smite me. Now!"
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Not even a convenient electrical storm thundering off in the distance!
And, as a final nail in your particular coffin of beliefs, I DO attend church about once every two months, and have to tie my mind down to prevent me from arising and rudely injecting some logic based comment to the very nice Pastor's persistently faith-based sermons.
Why? Because my wife is a director of some function in the church, but only for the income. At best, she's an agnostic.
As to your own church's Sunday School propaganda, including those "God Did It ALL!" cartoon books! How purposefully deceptive, don't you agree? Q: for God's sake, and since his obvious truths will no doubt if they are really true,why not let those kids first develop a fear-free mindset before purposefully scaring them with those "Or Else, God'll Get'cha!" stories?
Answer me that, and tell me you don't have any such programs or pre-biased curricula in your own church!
Tell you what, and be honest with me: if I showed up incognito to your church and listened in, as a prospective new parent let's say (though I am a bit old ..), to the curriculum in your Sunday School, what would I hear? An open-minded discussion of other alternative spiritual philosophies nicely and pleasantly represented, or what?
Be honest here, and if you don't know what your probably devout, fundamentalist and youthful SS teachers are saying,then you ought to go downstairs and listen in.)
Have to close this one for moderation when I get time.
I don't know at this point whether or not it will be worth reopening.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All of it inarguable. Yet still, they argue...
