Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
wait, you forgot, supernovas and nuclear energy. where did THEY come from?
I know the answer. And others on here do too.
We know what causes supernovae - gravity. They are an inevitable part of the life-cycle of stars of a sufficient mass.
As for nuclear energy, that is the harnessed result of fission, and we understand fission quite well.
I'm guessing that you've heard some version of this assertion made, but you don't actually understand it, and are regurgitating it in a confused way as a result. Perhaps if you understood it properly, you'd have asked from where gravity and/or matter come. The question would still be pointless in your search to rationalize God, but at least it wouldn't be assuming we don't know things that we in fact do know.
So, how did gravity and matter come to be? Beats me. And it does not matter as far as God goes.
You are putting forth (or, trying not very well to put forth) the God of the Gaps fallacy.
It goes something like this: We don't know why X exists/happens. Therefore, the only explanation is the God is the cause. Therefore, God exists.
And you really don't see the logical vacuity of such silliness? Then let me give you some hints.
Five hundred years ago, disease was not understood (the microscopic world had not yet been explored, or even known to exist). In the absence of understanding, all manner of divine causes were suggested. Then the microscope was invented, epidemiology as a discipline came into maturity, and we realized that diseases had non-divine explanations. By the way, the causes of some diseases are still unknown. Care to attribute them to God? No? I didn't think so. Not very consistent of you there.
A thousand years ago, comets were held to be divine portents. Then came Newton, and then telescopes, and a far more prosaic explanation was realized.
And the Sun? The ancient Egyptians couldn't explain it, knowing nothing of gravity or fusion. So they invented Ra - the Sun itself was a deity, they claimed. And if you had been around in Memphis (no, not the one in Tennessee) around 4400 years ago, you might've assured a skeptical fellow Egyptian that clearly, since your skeptical friend couldn't explain that bright heat-radiating orb that traversed the sky every day, it obviously needed a divine explation. But as we know, you'd have been wrong.
And this is the reason that more sophisticated theologians tend to avoid the God of the Gaps handwaving - they understand that if a gap in knowledge is held to be evidence for a deity, then the filling of a knowledge gap by acquired non-divine information is then evidence that there is no deity.
I'm sure if you were alive 4000 years ago in Egypt, you would be bowing down to Aumen, Ra, and Isis. If you say otherwise, you'd be lying because the Hebrew stories and god didn't exist back then.
.
and that is one of reason that Allah send prophet and messengers to guide the people
Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself.
And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss.
No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). The Holy Quran.
Quote:
Bolded. Thunder and lightning is not sent from the heavens. It's basic science
that any elementary schooler can tell you
Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days,
then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! The Holy Quran.
And among His Signs is that the heaven and the earth stand by His Command.
Then afterwards when He will call you by a single call, behold,
you will come out from the earth (i.e. from your graves for reckoning and recompense). The Holy Quran.
Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days,
then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! The Holy Quran.
And among His Signs is that the heaven and the earth stand by His Command.
Then afterwards when He will call you by a single call, behold,
you will come out from the earth (i.e. from your graves for reckoning and recompense). The Holy Quran.
Again, I refer to
Surat Ar-Ra`d 13:13 And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of
Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends
thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute
about Allah ; and He is severe in assault.
Thunder/Lightning is not sent by anybody.
You can believe the world was created in 7 days and whatever else, but there has to be (some?) knowledge here of science that is here, today, and in the present.
I love passing by this Subject Title when scrolling around 'New Posts'...
it immediately expands my mind/thoughts?....to the Creator, the Only One,
The All That IS, whatever... God...isn't it astonishing our little pea brains
can only think/ understand SO little.
I mean, right now imagine right here on earth...you are in a row boat, simple so far...
in the middle of the ocean, say, above the deepest 7 mile trench.
Ok got that?
Now imagine how much water is below you...the tons of black water...you just can not.
Boat, you, ocean...whats so hard? But we can't .
God is SO Magnificent, sigh..I'm so in love with this Superior Supreme Divine Being,
Holy Spirit Father God...not some idea...but from experiencing the glimpses He has given me...
opening the Doors of Perception to... to ...well, what electron microscopes see...Ah...
(Except washed in love.)
I love passing by this Subject Title when scrolling around 'New Posts'...
it immediately expands my mind/thoughts?....to the Creator, the Only One,
The All That IS, whatever... God...isn't it astonishing our little pea brains
can only think/ understand SO little.
I mean, right now imagine right here on earth...you are in a row boat, simple so far...
in the middle of the ocean, say, above the deepest 7 mile trench.
Ok got that?
Now imagine how much water is below you...the tons of black water...you just can not.
Boat, you, ocean...whats so hard? But we can't .
God is SO Magnificent, sigh..I'm so in love with this Superior Supreme Divine Being,
Holy Spirit Father God...not some idea...but from experiencing the glimpses He has given me...
opening the Doors of Perception to... to ...well, what electron microscopes see...Ah...
(Except washed in love.)
Too bad that our euphoric wishes aren't necessarily the truth.
I didn't say it was plausible-- in fact, I said the opposite.
That was the entire point.
While that may have been your 'point' it had nothing to do with you quoting my saying:
Yet they are alternate explanations and the only thing about some of them is that they cannot easily be dismissed as explanations - only dismissed as explanations which are not accompanied by solid material evidence.
Now another 'explanation' in the story of Adam and Eve. The only way I can think that it could be a plausible explanation is this.
Quote:
Was that the one about aliens?
The one about our possible ancient ancestors.
Quote:
I don't think it makes your myth more plausible just because you substitute aliens or human heroes and villains for mythological creatures or supernatural powers.
Well perhaps you need to ponder upon it some more because it is plausible. It brings the status of supernatural creatures (non plausible) to the status of highly advanced scientifically oriented physically evolved beings playing the role of 'creator god' over a far less advanced species and tweaking DNA genetics to improve the human form for a specific purpose. Plausible.
Quote:
Why do you assume that this MUST be the point of life if it has one?
Define 'life'.
What I have said is that consciousness has (as only it can) determined a point to life. It is not an assumption, it is a matter of fact.
This works at the subjective level of the individual and the objective level of groups of individuals. Not all groups are aligned in agenda and purpose but essentially the most important group of individuals is the one which is propelled by the agenda to nurture and preserve consciousness in order to give it the best chance of surviving this rather hostile environment we refer to as The Physical Universe.
Quote:
If something is perfectly suited to its environment, why does it need to change?
It only needs to change if is decides it needs to change and can find practical and lasting ways in which change is assured.
The human form for example is not perfect for this environment. Indeed no biological form is. But it is at least a stepping stone and a means by which something more suitably robust can be created, because it is able to last a little while at least, before it succumbs to the rigors of The Physical Universe.
Quote:
I really don't think you understand evolution.
I understand it enough not to presume there is any reason not to develop reasons for being.
Quote:
Humans aren't evolving as fast as tuatara or Adelie penguins:
Also you will likely know that the finches have been noted to change their biological form to adapt to the environment, not over hundreds of thousands of years, but in a matter of decades.
But I don't think you understand that I am not speaking about just the biological evolution process
but the evolutionary process of consciousness of mind of thought and the human ability to create and bring meaning into their existence.
A Tuatara is pretty much still a Tuatara and will continue to be a Tuatara. The speed at which their molecular evolutionary rate doesn't seem to offer any significant point in relation to what I am saying, so I fail to find any particular reason why you think it is relevant to use it in your argument against my observations.
Quote:
There are plenty of animals that are evolving much faster than human beings... species of very small fish are evolving much more quickly.
Again...how is that relevant to what I am pointing out? How does that apply to conscious evolution and how this has helped with technological evolution?
Quote:
If simply evolving is the whole point of life, then why are we so far behind?
Well now who said biological evolution was the whole point of life? It is more like a step in an unknown number of steps.
Quote:
Plenty of other species have consciousness. You're trapped in the same frame of mind that lead Europeans to conclude that the Japanese didn't have emotions or that black people were built for slavery.
How is it that your mind chose to decide to see that when I said:
You belittle human beings too readily. You assume also that we all have to survive en mass in order to be some kind of success. We don't. Indeed, a mere 'handful' of well organised well insulated human beings with the sole agenda of nurturing protecting and ensuring the utmost chance of consciousness surviving whatever nature might throw at it have a great chance of succeeding, especially with today's technology and knowledge.
That this equates to an issue of race and racism?
How is it that you assume that I do not understand the nature of consciousness enough to understand that it is very obviously evident in biological critters. I even acknowledge that it is evident in critters without brains.
I think you are too hasty in wanting to show me in an insipid light by bringing into this argument accusations of racism and ignorance of consciousness.
Such as is the case you are using your intelligence inappropriately. Please consider adjustment.
Quote:
You think human consciousness is supreme simply because you are a human.
No. Actually I am of the opinion that consciousness of itself is indistinguishable. Where the distinction can be found is in the nature of the form and the accompanying intelligence and how individuate consciousness uses that intelligence.
What I do know and what you appear to be denying, is that the human form altogether is superior in relationship to what consciousness can do with it.
Quote:
Obviously we don't have to survive en masse... but if we don't survive en masse then neither will our technology. How are you going to create a computer with Stone Age tools? How are you going to build lasers and robots when you need to spend your days growing enough food to survive? You can't just brush off a nuclear war.
Of course not. You can't just brush away the probability that a sector of the human race has not already prepared itself for that possibility and is already insulated (or ready to move into insulation) should such an event as nuclear war happen, or any such disaster, human made or naturally produced.
If you can brush such a probability away then you quite underestimate human intelligence and accompanying ability.
Nor did I suggest that conservation and nurturing of consciousness was limited to preservation of only the human aspect of consciousness.
Nor did I suggest that the seed of biological forms (the other critters) would be left to the destruction of human or nature created disasters.
Quote:
It's much easier to destroy something than to create something... I don't know why you think an 'organization' would be dedicated to protecting us from ourselves.
Because that is partly what human organisations are capable of doing. Not all organisations have the mentality of following the easy way.
I'm far from being convinced that other technologically advanced life has ever existed within our galaxy. Also, unless faster than light travel is possible (and it doesn't appear to be) why wouldn't they have remained here? Why wouldn't they have taken our water? Why wouldn't they have left signs behind? The hominin ancestry is thought to have sprouted 5-8 million years ago, I believe (or something like that). Why haven't we found ship parts or nonhuman footprints on the moon?
It could have happened. They would have had billions of years to get here. I'm not an expert on comparing human evolution to the evolution of other species, but extraterrestrials having modified our ancestors contains plenty of unanswered whys too.
It would not be necessary to stay around. The process is about tweaking the evolutionary process enough to assure it will likely go down the intended path and eventually create more an more complex machinery.
There is little reason to dwell on the planet or set foot on the moon. Harvesting water may not be a great problem anyway but it would not be necessary to incubate new biological forms until they are needed in relation to discovering new life bearing planets suitable for enhancement.
Most things can be done through automated machinery and the machinery itself may be that advanced as to being conscious.
Surat Ar-Ra`d 13:13 And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of
Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends
thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute
about Allah ; and He is severe in assault.
Thunder/Lightning is not sent by anybody.
You can believe the world was created in 7 days and whatever else, but there has to be (some?) knowledge here of science that is here, today, and in the present.
again , physics laws is designed by Allah
also all the laws of the universe .
if someone was killed by gun shots then you would say the cause of death is the gun shots but this is not the main reason for death ,
the main reason for death is the angel of death
He is the Irresistible, (Supreme) over His slaves,
and He sends guardians (angels guarding and writing all of one's good and bad deeds) over you, until when death approaches one of you, Our Messengers (angel of death and his assistants) take his soul,
and they never neglect their duty. The Holy Quran.
again , physics laws is designed by Allah
also all the laws of the universe .
if someone was killed by gun shots then you would say the cause of death is the gun shots but this is not the main reason for death ,
the main reason for death is the angel of death
He is the Irresistible, (Supreme) over His slaves,
and He sends guardians (angels guarding and writing all of one's good and bad deeds) over you, until when death approaches one of you, Our Messengers (angel of death and his assistants) take his soul,
and they never neglect their duty. The Holy Quran.
I can see that common sense won't win here.
Good luck to you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
