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Old 10-04-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
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As reform talks start, Pope vows to change Vatican mentality

I have to say, Pope Francis is starting to impress me. He's taken action that I thought I'd never witness: he's getting ready to clean house in the Holy See.

I'm particularly surprised and intrigued by his appointment of an advisory board -- certainly, it's an unusual step, but I think it's long overdue.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:26 PM
 
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He would appear to be the first post-modern pope. That's interesting to note.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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Religion must evolve to fit the times or it will become extinct. The Catholic church is still around after 1700+ years because it's good at that.

The various fundie religions on the other hand are pretty much screwed.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Religion must evolve to fit the times or it will become extinct. The Catholic church is still around after 1700+ years because it's good at that.

The various fundie religions on the other hand are pretty much screwed.
I guess it depends on what you think the origin of the church is. If it's God's church, then it really doesn't have to "evolve to fit the times". God is in control no matter what era it is. If, however, you think a religion lives or dies by slick marketing and popularity, then yah, we have to please the people.

Thankfully I think God is in control -- and those churches that seek to do God's work will survive--even if we are of the "various fundie religions".
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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How much of what Francis is doing is Francis alone as opposed to his representing a trend being embraced by the majority of Cardinals and Bishops?

Francis has made himself into a populist Pope, scorning the old guard and old practices and changing the image of the Church from sin monitors to socially concerned. He is 76 years old and if he gets another ten years or so, he could establish changes which take root and survive his Papacy. Should he die before reaching 80, it will be up to the Cardinals to elect someone who will continue in this direction, or elect someone who will be a reactionary and put the brakes on the modernism.

Anyone have any insight as to how well Francis is supported? The people love him, but does the Church hierarchy?
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post

Thankfully I think God is in control -- and those churches that seek to do God's work will survive--even if we are of the "various fundie religions".
God is not in control--not in this world--that would be incompatible with free will. God rolled the dice and watches the results. Maybe He gets even in the next world.

In any event Francis is doing well so far, the Church needs a good shaking up. He's giving many Catholics a new hope (pun intended). May the Force be with him.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post

Anyone have any insight as to how well Francis is supported? The people love him, but does the Church hierarchy?
I have no insight but I assume those who elected him were aware of his views and probable actions.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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The church, and the world, needs such a man. He is leading by example - illustrating how deeds trump dogma. The Rock which Peter founded is undergoing a significant, seismic upheaval. Although I'm loathe to embrace pop expressions, Francis is truly being the change.

As my admiration for him grows, so does my fear for his safety.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
God is not in control--not in this world--that would be incompatible with free will. God rolled the dice and watches the results. Maybe He gets even in the next world.
Got a verse for that? Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where it says that we have free will and that it overrides God's will?
Quote:
In any event Francis is doing well so far, the Church needs a good shaking up. He's giving many Catholics a new hope (pun intended). May the Force be with him.
I find it sad. I'm not a Catholic....but the Catholic Church has remained steadfast in some issues of morality, and it would appear that they are beginning to compromise.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,765,143 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Got a verse for that? Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where it says that we have free will and that it overrides God's will?
A verse? No. Does the Bible say we lack free will?

In any event if we don't have free will none of this matters. If we're puppets with God pulling our strings I can do any damned thing I want without blame, it's God's will. Sounds kind'a fatalistic.
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