Churches of America (hell, quote, Biblical, belief)

[shopzilla76]

Hello - I'm starting to engage in some research on churches in America and have started to hone in on the 501-(c)(3) designation that most of the American churches fall under.

So, this designation is needed via the IRS so that people who give money will ensure that their contribution is tax-deductible, and for most of my church going years that was the extent of it.

However, it seems as though the language in the paperwork associated with this kind of classification indicates that any organization that is 501 (c)(3) is now a corporation of the State. Lawful state definition seems to be as such*:

The creator of a corporation is the State.
The State is the sole authority and sovereign head over the corporation.
The corporation is subject to the laws of the State which limits its powers.
The corporation has no constitutionally protected rights.
The corporation is an artificial person.
The corporation submits to a State Charter declaring it is a creature of the State.
The corporation is created for the benefit of the public.
The corporation is a State franchise.
The corporation is a privilege granted by the State.

So take this language and replace corporation with church and you get:

The creator of your church is the State.
The State is the sole authority and sovereign head over your church.
Your church is subject to the laws of the State which limits its powers.
Your church has no constitutionally protected rights.
Your church is an artificial person.
Your church submits to a State Charter declaring it is a creature of the State.
Your church is created for the benefit of the public.
Your church is a State franchise.
Your church is a privilege granted by the State.

This is concerning to me for obvious reasons. I had always wondered why there was no real preaching happening in most of the churches that I went to...I mean nothing that pertained to current events or history - it all seem so canned and scripted. :-(

I get that no one is perfect and we're all human, but our churches, whatever belief, should have NOTHING to do with the State.

Thoughts?

*Sources:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopica03.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4221pc.pdf

http://biblicallawcenter.com/wp-cont...01c3CHURCH.pdf

[nateswift]

501 c 3 is a tax exempt status. If any particular church is willing to pay appropriate taxes with deductions for demonstrable charity work, then go for it. In many cases the end result might well be the same, but require a lot more bookkeeping. By me, a church organization is subject to the government the same as its members are. Should the individual members separate themselves from the state, or should they subject themselves to the injunction to obey the state?

[CAllenDoudna]

I don't think too many of our people deduct their offerings from their taxes; hardly any of us make enough for the long form. However, our treasurer was going to have to declare the Offerings as her own personal income and pay taxes on them. For this reason we had to file as a 501c-3. There have been misgivings about this for the reasons you cite, but I'm not sure what else we could have done about it other than hire one doozy of a lawyer.

[mensaguy]

In order to be tax exempt, you need to have a 501 (c) 3 certification from the IRS. In order to apply for one, you have to be registered as a non-profit corporation in your state. That's the way it works. If you don't like it that way, contact your elected representatives in the government and ask them to introduce bills to change it.

[shopzilla76]

Originally Posted by nateswift

501 c 3 is a tax exempt status. If any particular church is willing to pay appropriate taxes with deductions for demonstrable charity work, then go for it. In many cases the end result might well be the same, but require a lot more bookkeeping. By me, a church organization is subject to the government the same as its members are. Should the individual members separate themselves from the state, or should they subject themselves to the injunction to obey the state?

The 501 c3 is optional for churches, if they do not obtain this status it's not disobeying the State.

What I have an issue with are the terms of the agreement for a 501 c3 status...it basically declares the State lawfully the head of the Church and not Christ, simply put.

[shopzilla76]

Originally Posted by CAllenDoudna

I don't think too many of our people deduct their offerings from their taxes; hardly any of us make enough for the long form. However, our treasurer was going to have to declare the Offerings as her own personal income and pay taxes on them. For this reason we had to file as a 501c-3. There have been misgivings about this for the reasons you cite, but I'm not sure what else we could have done about it other than hire one doozy of a lawyer.

I think that's a good point about your treasurer, but I would have to say that knowing what I know, churches should not obtain 501 c3 status. Still researching, though.

[shopzilla76]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

In order to be tax exempt, you need to have a 501 (c) 3 certification from the IRS. In order to apply for one, you have to be registered as a non-profit corporation in your state. That's the way it works. If you don't like it that way, contact your elected representatives in the government and ask them to introduce bills to change it.

I'm not sure that I'm opposed to the status itself or the route to obtain it - I just don't think it's appropriate for our churches to obtain it, due to the terms of the agreement.

[Cephas40]

Our church is not 501c3. No problems with anyone deducting contributions, etc. Anyone who says churches have to be are mistaken or trying to play you for a fool. BTW, there are several websites with 501c3 search capabilities such as Nonprofit Organization Lookup

[Cephas40]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

In order to be tax exempt, you need to have a 501 (c) 3 certification from the IRS. In order to apply for one, you have to be registered as a non-profit corporation in your state. That's the way it works. If you don't like it that way, contact your elected representatives in the government and ask them to introduce bills to change it.

Not at all true for churches. Read IRS Code 508c Special rules with respect to section 501(c)(3) organizations (c) Exceptions
(1) Mandatory exceptions
Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—

(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches, or

[Cephas40]

Originally Posted by CAllenDoudna

I don't think too many of our people deduct their offerings from their taxes; hardly any of us make enough for the long form. However, our treasurer was going to have to declare the Offerings as her own personal income and pay taxes on them. For this reason we had to file as a 501c-3. There have been misgivings about this for the reasons you cite, but I'm not sure what else we could have done about it other than hire one doozy of a lawyer.

Our church has been never filed for 501c3 status in 30 years and have never had a single issue with charitable contributions.

As long as IRS substantiation and disclosure requirements are met there would be no issue like the one you've described.

In regards to 501c3 being mandatory (others posts, not yours) the IRS states;
Automatic Exemption for Churches
Churches that meet the requirements of IRC section 501(c)(3)
are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required
to apply for and obtain recognition of tax-exempt status from
the IRS.
Although there is no requirement to do so, many churches
seek recognition of tax-exempt status from the IRS because
such recognition assures church leaders, members, and
contributors that the church is recognized as exempt and
qualifies for related tax benefits. For example, contributors
to a church that has been recognized as tax exempt would
know that their contributions generally are tax-deductible.

If anyone is concerned about their charitable contributions IRS Publication 526 states;
Organizations That Qualify To Receive Deductible Contributions

You can deduct your contributions only if you make them to a qualified organization. Most organizations, other than churches and governments, must apply to the IRS to become a qualified organization.