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There is all this talk about heaven and how people will be nice and perfect.
Who is a perfect person? What is your list? Describe a perfect person.
And describe the side effects of being perfect. (For example, if you have to be very nice to all, that means you have to suffer a bit through listening to a person's rambling even though you don't want to. If you have to be generous to all, that means that sometimes you won't have things you want. If you have to be compassionate to all, well then it would be hard to "not lie" because truth hurts sometimes.)
The one who never loses his temper?
The one who is always very patient?
The one who always says only compassionate and kind things?
The one who doesn't lie and only speaks the truth?
(The two above don't go together as well, because sometimes you have to lie to be nice. Sometimes truth hurts. So if you want to speak only compassionate and kind things, you would have to not tell the truth sometimes.)
The one who always puts the needs of others before his own?
(Does this mean this person has no needs OR has no problems living without meeting his needs?
The one who doesn't FEEL jealousy? Or the one who feels jealousy, but doesn't act on it?
The one who is never afraid? Or the one who is afraid, but still has the power to do the thing he is afraid of.
Will a perfect person has a high self esteem or a low self esteem? Will a perfect person realize how valuable he is?
(If someone has low self esteem they will always get hurt by actions of others, especially if others are always speaking only the truth)
A perfect person is never greedy. Is he not greedy because he doesn't really want that thing anyways and so he is freely sharing it? Or he is just controlling his desires and sometimes has to go without something he wants, just because he is generous.
A perfect person always obeys God.
(Is that because he always wants to do what God wants him to do? Or does he need to forego his own desires and instead do what God wants him to do?)
A perfect person does not steal.
(In other words, if you don't have something, you just learn to live without it, you don't steal it.)
A perfect person does not cheat.
(A perfect person never chooses the easy way, by cheating, but always chooses the hard way, the right way.)
The first problem is that "perfect" is a subjective judgment and has no concrete definition. It is just someone or other suggesting an ideal. That someone doing the suggesting can be a person or organization, or a person or organization that baselessly asserts that god told them to suggest it.
I think the house I live in is pretty close to perfect but some people would think the opposite. It's perfect for my purposes and according to my taste, but not in some objective universal sense.
Of course through the magic of special pleading we can say that god's notion of perfection is in fact correct and absolute but even that can be shown to be nonsense in terms of what the Bible claims god considers perfection. For example he wants people to "do justice and love mercy and walk humbly with your god" but then he wants them to "hate father and mother". He preaches "turn the other cheek" and then assaults people in the temple and curses a fig tree for no other reason than that it p__ed him off ... for not bearing fruit ... when it was out of season anyway. Of course then theists speak of paradoxical truths and figures of speech and do all sorts of other tap dances but at the end of the day even that doesn't matter because the best righteousness that we can produce is no better than cast-off menstrual rags anyway.
There is all this talk about heaven and how people will be nice and perfect.
Who is a perfect person? What is your list? Describe a perfect person.
LW Are you talking about the ghosts/spirits that make it to heaven, or are you just interested in the flesh/bones type that we see walking around down here?
Concerning the later, I think mordant nailed it in his first sentence.
p.s. My guess is that ghosts living in heaven have gotten there on a pass/fail basis.
Not much to discuss there are no perfect humans who are breathing no matter how much someone wants to believe the one they love is perfect.
Doesn't happen, has never happened, will never happen.
After death I'm sure is an entirely new set of rules, regulations and guidelines.
Not much to discuss there are no perfect humans who are breathing no matter how much someone wants to believe the one they love is perfect.
Doesn't happen, has never happened, will never happen.
After death I'm sure is an entirely new set of rules, regulations and guidelines.
People assume that when we get to heaven, we'll be perfect (will stop being sinners, which means being perfect). Or that Adam was created perfect. So I just wanted to see what "perfect" really means.
"Perfect" is hard to define. For example, in my description, a perfect person would not lose his temper, would not act on jealousy, wouldn't be vengeful. But maybe I got this expectation of perfection from the Bible? Although God IS all those things and yet considered to be perfect. So...it doesn't make sense.
Some would say: a perfect person is the one who is submissive, who obeys. But I saw people like that in movies and they certainly did not seem perfect, but more like weak and victims and unable to stand up for themselves. Like something was missing in their character traits.
Some would say: this woman is perfect because she takes charge and I love that. But others wouldn't like that. So the definition of "perfect" would probably change depending on who is saying it.
Maybe perfect is more like "a healthy balanced person". But still, some people won't like such and such person even if they were healthy and balanced in their own way.
So maybe perfect means: able to respond to people in just the right way as not to rub them the wrong way. And who could do that? Only someone who is very wise, can read people and has full control of their emotions.
People assume that when we get to heaven, we'll be perfect (will stop being sinners, which means being perfect). Or that Adam was created perfect. So I just wanted to see what "perfect" really means.
"Perfect" is hard to define. For example, in my description, a perfect person would not lose his temper, would not act on jealousy, wouldn't be vengeful. But maybe I got this expectation of perfection from the Bible? Although God IS all those things and yet considered to be perfect. So...it doesn't make sense.
Some would say: a perfect person is the one who is submissive, who obeys. But I saw people like that in movies and they certainly did not seem perfect, but more like weak and victims and unable to stand up for themselves. Like something was missing in their character traits.
Some would say: this woman is perfect because she takes charge and I love that. But others wouldn't like that. So the definition of "perfect" would probably change depending on who is saying it.
Maybe perfect is more like "a healthy balanced person". But still, some people won't like such and such person even if they were healthy and balanced in their own way.
So maybe perfect means: able to respond to people in just the right way as not to rub them the wrong way. And who could do that? Only someone who is very wise, can read people and has full control of their emotions.
When you die and become a ghost and go and live in heaven, you leave behind all those things of the flesh which make mortals less than perfect (basically due to the emotions and thoughts created in their minds). I think that what probably happens is that at the main gate, or someplace nearby, all the newly arriving ghosts are sprayed with something that does away with any earthly desires they may be holding onto and wipes their mind clean.... kind of like clearing a cd or hdd. And then they are perfect and have nothing impure to worry about. After that they will just observe things and be happy in their surroundings, and of course, happily take care of any tasks that ghosts are assigned to do. Now is that perfection or what?
There is no such person. In Utopia perhaps, but not in this world as we know it. EVERYONE is flawed in some ways. Just that some of us is better than the others in hiding it from the world and not let it show, and way too many actually believe that they are "perfect" and start judging others with their double-standard, their false righteousness, only seeing the splinter in others' eyes and not the log in their own, always throwing the first stone.
However, there do exist in minority the honest few that do acknowledge their flaws and not afraid to show it. The world just doesn't have enough of them IMO.
The concept of perfection doesn't really compute with existence, in my brain. Perfection is completion, done, finished -- so, no more change, ever. But in our experience, every second of every day is change. Our situation changes, our body changes, our mind changes. Old things pass away and new things replace them (circumstances, cells, thoughts). I can't fathom an existence that did not involve change, and if there is change, there must not be perfection.
It seems to me that at the point of perfection, someone would cease to be. I dunno. I just don't get it.
People assume that when we get to heaven, we'll be perfect (will stop being sinners, which means being perfect). Or that Adam was created perfect. So I just wanted to see what "perfect" really means.
"Perfect" is hard to define. For example, in my description, a perfect person would not lose his temper, would not act on jealousy, wouldn't be vengeful. But maybe I got this expectation of perfection from the Bible? Although God IS all those things and yet considered to be perfect. So...it doesn't make sense.
Some would say: a perfect person is the one who is submissive, who obeys. But I saw people like that in movies and they certainly did not seem perfect, but more like weak and victims and unable to stand up for themselves. Like something was missing in their character traits.
Some would say: this woman is perfect because she takes charge and I love that. But others wouldn't like that. So the definition of "perfect" would probably change depending on who is saying it.
Maybe perfect is more like "a healthy balanced person". But still, some people won't like such and such person even if they were healthy and balanced in their own way.
So maybe perfect means: able to respond to people in just the right way as not to rub them the wrong way. And who could do that? Only someone who is very wise, can read people and has full control of their emotions.
Go visit an Elder of any of the Native American Tribes.....
When I said has control of emotions, I did not mean: acts like he doesn't have emotions.
Many "gurus" are a bit off putting because they act as though they are neither happy nor sad (to see you), or they don't react generally speaking.
Reacting is necessary for you to appear to be a great person. It's just that you're supposed to react in the right way in the right situation rather than letting your emotions take control and react in unhealthy ways.
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